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This is a relevant point becuase I was refuting a statement a previous poster made about the medical safety of abortion - outside of the argument of legality, etc.
Abortion is relatively safe for the mother.
Not so much for the baby though.
The American Academy of Family Physicians refers to the unborn as a second patient.
Do you believe that a doctor should be allowed to kill a patient intentionally?
seems kind of simple if you put it that way. i cant just go around murdering people because they may impede my liberty or my happiness.
Thing is, abortion is only considered "murder" to those who stretch the legal definition of the term.
It's not murder.
And if someone was physically leeching off of your nutrients, and could not live without your nutrients, I'd not blame you for removing the leech.
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Originally Posted by I am Joe White
So, does Might make Right? Is it just our ability to do something that makes it moral?
Does might make right? No. But I don't see anyone offering viable alternatives to unwanted pregnancy.
Because there is none.
Also, rights are extended to all born citizens.
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If I am able to steal from you because you are asleep, or unconscious, or in some other way unaware of it or unable to respond, do I have that right?
No. Because the person in question is not physically attached to you or so utterly depended on you that they cannot live without you.
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What difference does a person's ability to respond make?
Nothing. The difference in abortion between illegal and legal (And keep this in mind if you want to bring up the Scott Peterson case, because this applies here as well) is viability. If the fetus can live outside of the womb, then the fetus is a legal citizen with rights according to the law.
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If I murder someone on the street, they aren't able to respond any longer, so do I have that right?
No.
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I really am hard pressed to understand this type of reasoning, so if you could help me out by explaining what difference a person's ability to respond makes. Why does that make it right?
Nothing. The difference in abortion between illegal and legal (And keep this in mind if you want to bring up the Scott Peterson case, because this applies here as well) is viability. If the fetus can live outside of the womb, then the fetus is a legal citizen with rights according to the law.
In 19 states, killing a fetus that is pre-viability is chargeable and punishable as murder (with an exception for an abortion procedure). In many of those states, the fetus is even legally defined as a "person" - yes even pre-viability.
In Texas, in 2007 if I recall, a man was sentenced to the death penalty for "murdering" a 3-month fetus.
In 19 states, killing a fetus that is pre-viability is chargeable and punishable as murder (with an exception for an abortion procedure). In many of those states, the fetus is even legally defined as a "person" - yes even pre-viability.
In Texas, in 2007 if I recall, a man was sentenced to the death penalty for "murdering" a 3-month fetus.
That, I strongly disagree with.
But if I was wrong, then I was wrong.
But again, I strongly disagree with giving someone the death penalty for murdering a 3 month old fetus. That opens up too many doors.
But again, I strongly disagree with giving someone the death penalty for murdering a 3 month old fetus. That opens up too many doors.
Texas Man Gets Death for Killing Fetus (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/02/07/national/a163528S53.DTL - broken link)
Yes, the man also murdered the woman, but Texas law does not allow the death penalty for murdering one person (unless there are extenuating circumstances) if that person is over the age of 6. He was given the death penalty for murder of a child under the age of 6 or for murder of two "people."
FWIW, I'm against the death penalty altogether. Even more so when the "victim" is a 3-month fetus. But these laws are interesting.
Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 07-15-2009 at 01:34 PM..
Texas Man Gets Death for Killing Fetus (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/02/07/national/a163528S53.DTL - broken link)
I'm against the death penalty altogether but even more so when the victim is a 3-month fetus.
Yes, the man also murdered the woman, but Texas law does not allow the death penalty for murdering one person (unless there are extenuating circumstances) if that person is over the age of 6. He was given the death penalty for murder of a child under the age of 6 or for murder of two "people."
And I agree that in that scenario, the man murdered the child. If the girl got an abortion, it would not be murder. The difference lies in the physical connection between fetus and mother. The fetus was not attached to the man and therefore he had no rights to end its life.
This incident is one that I completely disagree with. Tammy Skinner got away with murdering her child that was ready to live outside her body.
Thing is, abortion is only considered "murder" to those who stretch the legal definition of the term.
It's not murder.
And if someone was physically leeching off of your nutrients, and could not live without your nutrients, I'd not blame you for removing the leech.
you dont have to stretch the definition of murder to consider abortion murder. you have to ignore the definition of murder to consider abortion not murder.
But again, I strongly disagree with giving someone the death penalty for murdering a 3 month old fetus. That opens up too many doors.
say you are pregnant and you are planning to raise your baby and love it and snuggle it and everything. you are 3 months into it, and someone punches you in the belly and your baby dies. thats murder to me. that someone murdered your baby.
say you are pregnant and you are planning to raise your baby and love it and snuggle it and everything. you are 3 months into it, and someone punches you in the belly and your baby dies. thats murder to me. that someone murdered your baby.
First off, if Lang was preggers, I'd donate him to some research center ($$!). Secondly, I agree that causing the death of another woman's fetus (without her consent) is wrong. If it was done intentionally, it's murder. If it was accidental, negligent homicide.
However, when a doctor performs an abortion, it is legal because the mother (or a proxy) has approved the procedure.
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