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I have several questions regarding liberal stances. Now, I do realize that these stances may not be held by the typical moderate liberal but rather, by extreme ones. I also realize that there might be some conservatives who hold these stances but that is usually VERY rare.
Please try to answer my questions if you can.
1) Illegal immigrants-I hear about how liberals are against kicking illegal immigrants out. Why is that? Why should we allow these people to come here and demand we adjust to them? I mean, think about it. They give no respect to our country and even fly the Mexican Flag over the United States one. We should we be ok with that? They hardly pay into anything. In fact, I watched a video that was posted in our illegal immigration forum and it ENRAGED me. This Mexican woman came over the border just to give birth and have an anchor baby. Who footed the bill? WE DID.
2) Death penalty-I also fail to understand why liberals feel the need to protect the people who raped and kill other people. I am for death penalty IF THERE IS HARD CONCRETE PROOF that that person did the crime. I mean, why should we let them live in jail or prison and give them food and give them health care when they killed someone! This someone may have been a father, a best friend, a brother, sister, mother, sister, uncle, aunt so why should they live getting food and health care (paid by us-OF COURSE)?
3) Welfare- You have no freakin idea how much abuse I have witnessed ever since I started working in retail. People try to buy all sorts of things on the Michigan Bridge Card and then yell at me when it does not go through. Well-DUH! I think you know you cannot buy nail polish or magazines on the card, right? I am standing here working for eight hours making $7.57 an hour for people like you? Don't talk to me like that and don't get angry like that when I am the one who is giving you all these benefits. I am for welfare BUT to a point. I am for welfare when someone can PROVE that they are indeed looking for a job and have hit hard times. Not because they don't want to work anymore (if they EVEN have worked before).
Please do not bash each other here as I am looking for a sincere discussion and maybe a reason why some people believe in the above.
1) Illegal immigrants -- Sorry, I don't do illegal immigration.
2) Death penalty -- Many people don't want a life taken in their name which is what they feel the state is doing when it executes someone. They feel it makes the state no better than the murderer.
I sort of feel that way but by far my biggest objection is the execution of innocent people. I'm not convinced the "concrete proof" scenario would work.
3) Welfare- -- Welfare is necessary because simply there are people who cannot support themselves for some reason or another. And we give aid to families with dependent children because we believe children should not suffer because of their parents' inability to support them. What you are dealing with is not welfare but abuse of welfare. Forget that "looking for a job" stuff -- do you know what the unemployment rate is for people who have been working? Not only is it difficult to get a job to come off welfare -- many people on welfare have no skills or have physical/psychological limitations -- there is incredible competition for every job these days. Truth is, some people never worked and never will for a variety of reasons. We have a choice, we can sustain them or we can let them live on the streets and fend for themselves, some dying in the process. I'm not nasty enough for that.
I have several questions regarding liberal stances. Now, I do realize that these stances may not be held by the typical moderate liberal but rather, by extreme ones. I also realize that there might be some conservatives who hold these stances but that is usually VERY rare.
Please try to answer my questions if you can.
1) Illegal immigrants-I hear about how liberals are against kicking illegal immigrants out. Why is that? Why should we allow these people to come here and demand we adjust to them? I mean, think about it. They give no respect to our country and even fly the Mexican Flag over the United States one. We should we be ok with that? They hardly pay into anything. In fact, I watched a video that was posted in our illegal immigration forum and it ENRAGED me. This Mexican woman came over the border just to give birth and have an anchor baby. Who footed the bill? WE DID.
2) Death penalty-I also fail to understand why liberals feel the need to protect the people who raped and kill other people. I am for death penalty IF THERE IS HARD CONCRETE PROOF that that person did the crime. I mean, why should we let them live in jail or prison and give them food and give them health care when they killed someone! This someone may have been a father, a best friend, a brother, sister, mother, sister, uncle, aunt so why should they live getting food and health care (paid by us-OF COURSE)?
3) Welfare- You have no freakin idea how much abuse I have witnessed ever since I started working in retail. People try to buy all sorts of things on the Michigan Bridge Card and then yell at me when it does not go through. Well-DUH! I think you know you cannot buy nail polish or magazines on the card, right? I am standing here working for eight hours making $7.57 an hour for people like you? Don't talk to me like that and don't get angry like that when I am the one who is giving you all these benefits. I am for welfare BUT to a point. I am for welfare when someone can PROVE that they are indeed looking for a job and have hit hard times. Not because they don't want to work anymore (if they EVEN have worked before).
Please do not bash each other here as I am looking for a sincere discussion and maybe a reason why some people believe in the above.
Thanks.
I'm against illegal immigration and believe AT ALL
I believe in the Death Penalty when it is a clear cut case and extremely dispicable crime.
Welfare - I grew up in a urban part of New Jersey, so you could imagine that i've seen it all. Welfare shouldn't be abolished, but i do believe that the government should be doing more to make these people work for their check. Anyone who needs to collect a check for 1,2,3 10 years is beyond lazy. there are too many minimum wage jobs ...you know the same jobs that the government claim only illegals will do?
I have several questions regarding liberal stances. Now, I do realize that these stances may not be held by the typical moderate liberal but rather, by extreme ones. I also realize that there might be some conservatives who hold these stances but that is usually VERY rare.
Please try to answer my questions if you can.
1) Illegal immigrants-I hear about how liberals are against kicking illegal immigrants out. Why is that? Why should we allow these people to come here and demand we adjust to them? I mean, think about it. They give no respect to our country and even fly the Mexican Flag over the United States one. We should we be ok with that? They hardly pay into anything. In fact, I watched a video that was posted in our illegal immigration forum and it ENRAGED me. This Mexican woman came over the border just to give birth and have an anchor baby. Who footed the bill? WE DID.
2) Death penalty-I also fail to understand why liberals feel the need to protect the people who raped and kill other people. I am for death penalty IF THERE IS HARD CONCRETE PROOF that that person did the crime. I mean, why should we let them live in jail or prison and give them food and give them health care when they killed someone! This someone may have been a father, a best friend, a brother, sister, mother, sister, uncle, aunt so why should they live getting food and health care (paid by us-OF COURSE)?
3) Welfare- You have no freakin idea how much abuse I have witnessed ever since I started working in retail. People try to buy all sorts of things on the Michigan Bridge Card and then yell at me when it does not go through. Well-DUH! I think you know you cannot buy nail polish or magazines on the card, right? I am standing here working for eight hours making $7.57 an hour for people like you? Don't talk to me like that and don't get angry like that when I am the one who is giving you all these benefits. I am for welfare BUT to a point. I am for welfare when someone can PROVE that they are indeed looking for a job and have hit hard times. Not because they don't want to work anymore (if they EVEN have worked before).
Please do not bash each other here as I am looking for a sincere discussion and maybe a reason why some people believe in the above.
Thanks.
I agree with you on immigration and welfare, the penal system was designed to not punish people but to protect society, and originally to rehabilitate. Rehabilitation is just about abandoned.
It cost way more to put someone to death than it does to keep a person in jail. The legal costs and appeals are so rigid, as well they should be. So if putting someone to death is just for the purpose of punishment I think it is wrong.
There have been many people that were put in prison with HARCORD SOLID PROOF and then years later DNA evidence showed them not to be guilty. You can't fix a wrongfull conviction if the person is dead.
TLV, I'm not a liberal as you know () but I am anti-death penalty, so I thought I'd comment on that one.
This is a post I made on a previous thread about the death penalty that I'm copying for you (we were discussing several cases in which the guilt of the offenders had been in question, the people had already been executed; this will put the first paragraph in context):
"Regardless of whether these people were innocent or not, I guarantee that there has been at least one truly innocent person executed in the U.S. at some point in recent times. I'm not 100% sure of a name but if there are doubts as to so many, at least one has to be for real.
Even if you support the death penalty in theory (which I do not as two wrongs do not make a right), how could anyone possibly argue that any risk at all is worth it? Especially given that it would be cheaper to just lock them up and throw away the key?
Our justice system will never be perfect. I understand that there would be innocent people (and are already) who are locked up forever as well. But I find that morally preferable to killing them and I think most of you would agree. And, there would at least be far more time to prove their innocence and release them. I'm certainly not suggesting that 20-30 years in prison is something that any innocent person should suffer, but it's better to let them out at some point than never.
Given that the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent, is the revenge really worth all this?"
TLV, I'm not a liberal as you know () but I am anti-death penalty, so I thought I'd comment on that one.
This is a post I made on a previous thread about the death penalty that I'm copying for you (we were discussing several cases in which the guilt of the offenders had been in question, the people had already been executed; this will put the first paragraph in context):
"Regardless of whether these people were innocent or not, I guarantee that there has been at least one truly innocent person executed in the U.S. at some point in recent times. I'm not 100% sure of a name but if there are doubts as to so many, at least one has to be for real.
Even if you support the death penalty in theory (which I do not as two wrongs do not make a right), how could anyone possibly argue that any risk at all is worth it? Especially given that it would be cheaper to just lock them up and throw away the key?
Our justice system will never be perfect. I understand that there would be innocent people (and are already) who are locked up forever as well. But I find that morally preferable to killing them and I think most of you would agree. And, there would at least be far more time to prove their innocence and release them. I'm certainly not suggesting that 20-30 years in prison is something that any innocent person should suffer, but it's better to let them out at some point than never.
Given that the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent, is the revenge really worth all this?"
That is a good point.
I understand where you all come from (as with the abortion topic) but tend to lean the other way from you there.
I have to ask you something. How much does it cost to put someone to sleep compared to having them there-with food and healthcare?
I understand where you all come from (as with the abortion topic) but tend to lean the other way from you there.
I have to ask you something. How much does it cost to put someone to sleep compared to having them there-with food and healthcare?
The trial and seemingly endless appeals are what cause the enormous cost - it's several million for each death penalty case. The potassium chloride cocktail itself costs somewhere between $50 and $100.
The cost of housing a prisoner varies from about $10,000-$50,000 a year by state. Here in TX, it's about $16,000. Let's say the scumbag has 50 years to live. 50 x $16,000 = $800,000
Those averages do, I believe, include health care costs
The trial and seemingly endless appeals are what cause the enormous cost - it's several million for each death penalty case on average. The potassium chloride cocktail itself costs somewhere between $50 and $100.
The cost of housing a prisoner varies from about $10,000-$50,000 a year by state. Here in TX, it's about $16,000. Let's say the scumbag has 50 years to live. 50 x $16,000 = $800,000
Those averages do, I believe, include health care costs
Then wouldn't it be cheaper to just kill them off? It is going to cost millions anyways, right?
If the scumbag lives for 50 years, it will cost $800,000. Why not just pay $50-$100 and kill them off?
I have several questions regarding liberal stances. Now, I do realize that these stances may not be held by the typical moderate liberal but rather, by extreme ones. I also realize that there might be some conservatives who hold these stances but that is usually VERY rare.
Please try to answer my questions if you can.
1) Illegal immigrants - Any "illegal" immigration is bad. You don't need to be liberal or conservative to recognize this. I'm all for building a huge frickin' iron wall to stop this, but I'd also like to see Mexico and Mexicans become wealthy and prosperous, so that maybe one day, we won't even need much of border.
2) Death penalty - This is a tough one and once again, it has little to do with being liberal or conservative. Personally, I cannot decide on it, but I tend to lean towards being more against it than I am for it, although I really do see both sides of the argument. I just think that the most heinous criminals out there are better punished by being sentenced to life behind bars as caged animals, rather than to just be executed and "released" from the duties of having to live your life.
3) Welfare - I am all for a social safety net, but I am also all for cracking down on abuse. Welfare should not be a lifestyle -- it should be there to take care of those who genuinely cannot take care of themselves and it should be a stepping stone to help people get back on their feet. I do hate the abuse though, but it is possible to crack down on the abuse, without cutting welfare to those who really need it.
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) but I am anti-death penalty, so I thought I'd comment on that one.
