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Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,020,628 times
Reputation: 36027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla
Personally, I chose something besides the public school system for my offspring. I'm not saying it isn't good in some places, but my experience was different, and I was lucky enough to have an alternative.
An English teacher accused my son of plagiarism...but the guy couldn't tell who he was ripping off...and this was in the context of a free form writing assignment at the beginning of every class. No books on the table--just kids writing down their thoughts. The teacher couldn't pinpoint it but he felt that my son couldn't have written those exercises on his own.
It gave me great pleasure to e-mail the SOB and inform him that my son had received a writing scholarship to an school that he (the teacher) never had a prayer of getting into in the first place.
Sometimes the public schools are nothing but a haven for mediocre teachers...I agree wthat Chapel Hill is a great place, but please...don't apply their excellent standards to all public schools.
Exactly. I've been miseducated by several mediocre teachers and lost one year of my education due to teacher strikes.
I have several questions regarding liberal stances. Now, I do realize that these stances may not be held by the typical moderate liberal but rather, by extreme ones. I also realize that there might be some conservatives who hold these stances but that is usually VERY rare.
Please try to answer my questions if you can.
1) Illegal immigrants-I hear about how liberals are against kicking illegal immigrants out. Why is that? Why should we allow these people to come here and demand we adjust to them? I mean, think about it. They give no respect to our country and even fly the Mexican Flag over the United States one. We should we be ok with that? They hardly pay into anything. In fact, I watched a video that was posted in our illegal immigration forum and it ENRAGED me. This Mexican woman came over the border just to give birth and have an anchor baby. Who footed the bill? WE DID.
2) Death penalty-I also fail to understand why liberals feel the need to protect the people who raped and kill other people. I am for death penalty IF THERE IS HARD CONCRETE PROOF that that person did the crime. I mean, why should we let them live in jail or prison and give them food and give them health care when they killed someone! This someone may have been a father, a best friend, a brother, sister, mother, sister, uncle, aunt so why should they live getting food and health care (paid by us-OF COURSE)?
3) Welfare- You have no freakin idea how much abuse I have witnessed ever since I started working in retail. People try to buy all sorts of things on the Michigan Bridge Card and then yell at me when it does not go through. Well-DUH! I think you know you cannot buy nail polish or magazines on the card, right? I am standing here working for eight hours making $7.57 an hour for people like you? Don't talk to me like that and don't get angry like that when I am the one who is giving you all these benefits. I am for welfare BUT to a point. I am for welfare when someone can PROVE that they are indeed looking for a job and have hit hard times. Not because they don't want to work anymore (if they EVEN have worked before).
Please do not bash each other here as I am looking for a sincere discussion and maybe a reason why some people believe in the above.
Thanks.
1) I am against ILLEGAL immigration. If people want to immigrate to the U.S., they should follow our immigration laws. Those who are already here illegally should be dealt in a responsible manner ... and not simply kicked out. If they have already established lives here, and are contributing to their community in a positive way, we should work with them to make them legal. It is then up to us to make it more difficult for illegals to get into the country, and not severely punish those who managed to get in under the radar. Being an illegal immigrant is not a serious crime. It's just someone who wants a better life for themselves, but didn't follow the rules for immigration. They are not necessarily bad people, and shouldn't be treated as such.
2) I am with you on the Death Penalty. If someone committed a premeditated murder, which can not be disputed, then they should get the death penalty. If there is the slightest bit of uncertainty, where there is a chance they might be proven innocent at a later date, then I am for life in prison.
3) Welfare just needs to be properly controlled, so people don't take advantage of it. Possibly conduct surprise visits from welfare workers to check up on how people are using their money, and whether they truly deserve it. Perhaps they should be required to keep track of 100% of their daily expenses and keep receipts, and then be required to report to a welfare worker to have their expenses reviewed every few months. Chances are, this is how it is being done now.
Personally, I chose something besides the public school system for my offspring. I'm not saying it isn't good in some places, but my experience was different, and I was lucky enough to have an alternative.
An English teacher accused my son of plagiarism...but the guy couldn't tell who he was ripping off...and this was in the context of a free form writing assignment at the beginning of every class. No books on the table--just kids writing down their thoughts. The teacher couldn't pinpoint it but he felt that my son couldn't have written those exercises on his own.
It gave me great pleasure to e-mail the SOB and inform him that my son had received a writing scholarship to an school that he (the teacher) never had a prayer of getting into in the first place.
Sometimes the public schools are nothing but a haven for mediocre teachers...I agree wthat Chapel Hill is a great place, but please...don't apply their excellent standards to all public schools.
I generally don't, I am very well aware that what makes Chapel Hill work is not the case everywhere. I am just tired of seeing how people on this forum just love to universally trash public schools in favor of vouchers that screw the very people they say they want to help. Lets face it in many cases 3000-5000 a year is generally not going to cover the costs of a private education. I understand that not everywhere is great, and in many areas reform is needed, but at the same time I think it is unwise to completely dismantle the public school system in some half-thought out privatization scheme.
Exactly. I've been miseducated by several mediocre teachers and lost one year of my education due to teacher strikes.
Oh hell yeah. My son's third grade teacher was out at least two days every week, sometimes more, because she had enough seniority to take time off.
It wasn't a horrible school district, and he had a very inspiring 2nd grade teacher. It wasn't all bad. I'm glad that I only had one child though, so that private school wasn't beyond our means. Most of the teachers were putting their time and nothing else.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,020,628 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla
Oh hell yeah. My son's third grade teacher was out at least two days every week, sometimes more, because she had enough seniority to take time off.
It wasn't a horrible school district, and he had a very inspiring 2nd grade teacher. It wasn't all bad. I'm glad that I only had one child though, so that private school wasn't beyond our means. Most of the teachers were putting their time and nothing else.
And a high percent of teachers send their precious children to private schools. Guess they don't have much faith in the system to risk placing their flesh and blood in public schools.
Excellent point! See, what no one seems to REMEMBER is that the majority of us, except for native americans, are just that.....immigrants!
I think when my great-grandparents came here from Germany, my DH's maternal great-grands from Denmark, and even his paternal grandparents from Sweden in the early days of the last century, there were no "quotas" or any particular immigration barriers. Steel companies went arouond Europe rounding up immigrants to work in the steel mills of Pennsylvania. I think of that often when I hear about "illegals". I do agree the immigrants should try to become Americans, though I don't think they should give up their own culture, either. We're all the better for the different cultures here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73
And a high percent of teachers send their precious children to private schools. Guess they don't have much faith in the system to risk placing their flesh and blood in public schools.
Do you have any stats on that? All the teachers I know send their kids to public school.
I generally don't, I am very well aware that what makes Chapel Hill work is not the case everywhere. I am just tired of seeing how people on this forum just love to universally trash public schools in favor of vouchers that screw the very people they say they want to help. Lets face it in many cases 3000-5000 a year is generally not going to cover the costs of a private education. I understand that not everywhere is great, and in many areas reform is needed, but at the same time I think it is unwise to completely dismantle the public school system in some half-thought out privatization scheme.
I get ya I'm not in favor of the voucher system either.
I have several questions regarding liberal stances. Now, I do realize that these stances may not be held by the typical moderate liberal but rather, by extreme ones. I also realize that there might be some conservatives who hold these stances but that is usually VERY rare.
Please try to answer my questions if you can.
1) Illegal immigrants-I hear about how liberals are against kicking illegal immigrants out. Why is that? Why should we allow these people to come here and demand we adjust to them? I mean, think about it. They give no respect to our country and even fly the Mexican Flag over the United States one. We should we be ok with that? They hardly pay into anything. In fact, I watched a video that was posted in our illegal immigration forum and it ENRAGED me. This Mexican woman came over the border just to give birth and have an anchor baby. Who footed the bill? WE DID.
2) Death penalty-I also fail to understand why liberals feel the need to protect the people who raped and kill other people. I am for death penalty IF THERE IS HARD CONCRETE PROOF that that person did the crime. I mean, why should we let them live in jail or prison and give them food and give them health care when they killed someone! This someone may have been a father, a best friend, a brother, sister, mother, sister, uncle, aunt so why should they live getting food and health care (paid by us-OF COURSE)?
3) Welfare- You have no freakin idea how much abuse I have witnessed ever since I started working in retail. People try to buy all sorts of things on the Michigan Bridge Card and then yell at me when it does not go through. Well-DUH! I think you know you cannot buy nail polish or magazines on the card, right? I am standing here working for eight hours making $7.57 an hour for people like you? Don't talk to me like that and don't get angry like that when I am the one who is giving you all these benefits. I am for welfare BUT to a point. I am for welfare when someone can PROVE that they are indeed looking for a job and have hit hard times. Not because they don't want to work anymore (if they EVEN have worked before).
Please do not bash each other here as I am looking for a sincere discussion and maybe a reason why some people believe in the above.
Okay I'll bite...Mainly moral reasons for me on these issues.
1) I am against kicking out illegal immigrants on a moral basis. Basically I know what conditions are like in Mexico (which is where they mainly come from) and if I were in the condition that many of them are in where I could not support my family in my country, I'd leave and find somewhere I could.
I do think legal immigration is always a better choice, but the fact is it just doesn't happen fast enough in some situations.
2) While I do not feel sorry for rapists and murderers I do care about the statement the death penalty makes about us as a society. In my opinion a society can be judged based on how it treats it's WORST offenders...basically kill them with kindness...don't actually kill them. Show them what love is, cause I'd venture to say many of them have no clue. Again I know how many of our violent preadators (not all but many) grow up in BAD situations, no that doesn't excuse what they have done, but it should make us want to show them goodness rather then becoming like them by killing them. Also I don't trust my justice system or government enough to want to allow them to KILL people.
3) Welfare I agree with you I'm for it to a point, but there is a lot of abuse at the moment and the system needs a serious overhaul.
Question #1 - Since when did it become the United States "job" to take in "Illegal" Immigrants...ie: the word illegal.....there are legal ways to get here...utilize the legal processes in place or get sent back to WHATEVER country you came.
Question #2 - Take a life, have the case proven beyone a reasonable doubt, go through a penalty phase and have it decided that death is the sentence....then so be it.
Question #3 - There are generation, after generation, after generation of families that are on welfare. Through these families comes addiction problems (which cost us more money) and out of wedlock children who roam the streets unsupervised causing high crime rates (again, costing us more money). Welfare needs to be reformed and given a complete overhaul. I have no problem paying my fair share for down on their luck people who need some "temporary" help but temporary cannot mean grandma, ma, and daughter........
Then wouldn't it be cheaper to just kill them off? It is going to cost millions anyways, right?
If the scumbag lives for 50 years, it will cost $800,000. Why not just pay $50-$100 and kill them off?
If we cut out all of the special perks there scumbags get it sure would cut down on cost.
Prison should be three bland but [SIZE=2]nutritious meals per day, a basic, no frills cell with a bed, sink and toilet. NO PRIVLIAGES OF ANY KIND. Nothing but one religious book allowed in the cell for entertainment. The inmate should have to work 8 hours per day, 6 days per week or be sent to the hole and fed bread and water.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]If we actually made our prisons tough again they would actually be a deterrant. It's a win win. Save money by cutting out all the frills and be able to give shorter sentances because the conditions are so rough.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Plus, it's morally wrong to coddle criminals. You need to crush them. No rehabilitation on my dime. Either shape up or we'll lock you up for life. I feel ZERO sympathy for criminals.
[/SIZE][SIZE=2][/SIZE]
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I'm not in favor of the voucher system either.
