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Old 09-17-2009, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,219,039 times
Reputation: 7373

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Really a sad sight to drive between Sacramento and Los Angeles.

We go down to LA every few months to visit our sons, and drive through the Central Valley area. Before this year, we passed a couple of hundred miles of farms, now most of it is just barren land with some weeds sticking out of the ground.

Should drive up some food prices pretty soon, and I hope that politicians effectively use this issue to reevaluate how we apply Endangered Species.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:20 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 10,413,498 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
How many years? Very few, actually.

How can it be "evil" to protect the environment when environmental protection protects people and their livelihoods? If you don't intervene to prevent habitat collapse, the habitat will die. And then what will the people do?

You need to educate yourself on ecology, rather than passing judgment based wholly on ignorance and knee-jerk partisan hatred.
You need to educate yourself on making assumptions regarding "knee-jerk partisan hatred". You are the hater.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:21 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,855,247 times
Reputation: 9283
I think its deceitful to say that if you have hundreds of organism and you take out "one" organism it will cause a "habitat collapse"... habitats don't rely on just one organism... unless you believe in manmade global warming then I guess you believe in any fairy tale... is the minnow a "critical" creature in the habitat... the likely answer is NO...
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:22 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,878 posts, read 2,064,338 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
What you--and other people who are wholly ignorant about the environment--don't seem to "get" is that if the ecosystem collapses, these people will be forced into poverty forever, and the price of food will be driven even higher. There is no "wisdom" in destroying the very habitat upon which one depends for food.
Fear, plain and simple, you're using fear. It will not collapse, they will not go extinct. The water will not completely dry up, enough will adapt to keep the species alive.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Great Falls, Montana
4,002 posts, read 3,905,319 times
Reputation: 1398
Oh poor boo-hiss ...

How many years has California been taking water from other states now?
It's not their water to start with and now they are making a flap about this?

Pahleeze ...
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:23 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,278,203 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Really a sad sight to drive between Sacramento and Los Angeles.

We go down to LA every few months to visit our sons, and drive through the Central Valley area. Before this year, we passed a couple of hundred miles of farms, now most of it is just barren land with some weeds sticking out of the ground.

Should drive up some food prices pretty soon, and I hope that politicians effectively use this issue to reevaluate how we apply Endangered Species.
Which land? And why do you think that land is "barren"? Do you know anything about it, in particular, based in fact?

Ever been to Montana? There's a dying state. Primarily because of the devastation wrought by mining: soil erosion, deforestation, water poisoning, and the eco-collapse that resulted. All because the mining companies were allowed to circumvent environmental laws. And many of them simply walked away--legally--from the environmental fallout of their illegal business practices. The taxpayer had to pick up the tab.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:24 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,878 posts, read 2,064,338 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigskydude View Post
Oh poor boo-hiss ...

How many years has California been taking water from other states now?
It's not their water to start with and now they are making a flap about this?

Pahleeze ...
That's a pretty ****ty attitude about it. These farmers supply the nation with food. That fish will survive.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:24 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,278,203 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by pommysmommy View Post
You need to educate yourself on making assumptions regarding "knee-jerk partisan hatred". You are the hater.
Your "opinion" on this matter is clearly an uneducated opinion, and clearly based in blind partisan hatred. I called you on it. If that makes me a "hater," according to you, I'm hardly surprised.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster View Post
What about the animals that depend on those little fish for food? Don't they matter either? What about the fish species that eat the smelt that humans catch in turn? I suppose it doesn't matter if a whole ecosystem collapses, just as long as we get our water, right?

It's not as simple as let the fish go extinct so we can have more water. What if the fishing industry around California collapses because a vital link goes missing in the food chain? Then you'd have a wrecked ecosystem AND a bunch of people out of work, not only commercial fishermen but also those that depend on sports fishing for their livelihoods instead of farmers.
After Viet Nam the acid supply dried up and hippies got bored, and I mean really, really bored. So they started looking earnestly for new reasons to hate their parents. Enter EPA and the Endangered Species Act.

If a preserved population of Delta Smelt are incapable of repopulating the waterways when the drought is over, then they don't deserve to exist.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:27 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,278,203 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
I think its deceitful to say that if you have hundreds of organism and you take out "one" organism it will cause a "habitat collapse"... habitats don't rely on just one organism... unless you believe in manmade global warming then I guess you believe in any fairy tale... is the minnow a "critical" creature in the habitat... the likely answer is NO...
It's not the least bit "deceitful." It's Ecology 101. It's the "land pyramid": any alteration to any layer of the pyramid results in a resonating effect on all other layers.

"Manmade global warming" is hardly a "fairy tale." If it is, then the Pentagon is busily occupied--and deeply worried--over the coming climate threats based on a fairy tale. You do know that the Pentagon considers man-made climate change to be the No. 1 national security threat, right? Perhaps you should write them, as well as every major scientific institution on the planet, and let them know that they are mistaken in their acceptance of climate change as man-made and very real?
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