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The key though is - 43% are VOLUNTARILY uninsured -
FREEDOM
Ok that brings us back to me as a healthcare provider should be able to refuse treatment until I receive payment up front from the uninsured. You are not free to take my labor.
In theory, I agree with you.
But only if we, as a nation, can become callous enough to refuse those people treatment if they cannot or will not pay.
Be like Mexico?
You are right of course and I for one do not want to be like Mexico.
First thing we need to do to lower costs is get the lawyers the heck out of medicine and it isn't so much the cost of lawsuits but the costs associated with the fear of lawsuits.
As a nation we can not afford to give everyone Presidential level health care. We just can't, not enough money in the universe. Would be nice if we could but we just don't have it even if we were willing to spend it.
Let me make an amateur attempt at an example but bear in mind I don't have any medical training. Before the medical experts falme me they need to understand I am not claiming to be any sort of expert.
Sidney is involved in an automobile accident, complains of a stiff neck and paramedics rush him to the hospital.
This is logical and a good move in my opinion.
A doctor checks Sidney out, has him touch his nose with his eyes closed, watches him stretch his arms and then carefully feels, pushes and prods around Sidney's neck and Sidney doesn't complain other than to say his neck feels stiff.
It's been three hours, Sidney hasn't had any more symptoms other than a sore lower neck but what happens should the doctor release Sidney only to have Sidney develop severe problems three hours from now?
The doctor, in order to avoid any potential lawsuit, is going to cover his butt. We're going to get an MRI, a CAT scan and then how about some x-ray too or whatever. By the time all the medical experts review everything six hours have passed and Sidney's insurance carrier is looking at $20,300 in tests that say Sidney just has sore neck that will heal on its own in 3 days.
Sidney's visit that should have cost $1,000 tops now costs over 20 times that amount.
If it was just Sidney it wouldn't be a problem but multiply Sidney but thirty thousand a day and you can see how it could become a problem.
As I said I am not an expert.
Not saying a negligent doctor shouldn't be held accountable either but certainly there has to be a better way other than make mega-millionairs of likes the scumbag John Edwards.
Also need to keep the mental health people the heck out of the system because Doctor Talktomefeelgood will bankrupt it quicker than anyone else. Medicine is medicine and not some sort of sensitivity training exercise. If you want that then pay for your own insurance.
But we need to move towards something workable because no mother should have to beg for the life of her child because of her inability to pay.
You could buy your own private insurance. The payroll provisions for requiring employers to provide insurance are low enough that almost every employer will have to comply.
You genes will only do so much for you. You could be in an accident, or exposed to some nasty communicable disease.
thats called life ins will not stop that accident or disease and only the lawers will make money on it don't want to die with that on my deathbed
Greatday......practicality.......an anecdote for you.
I took my husband to the ER the other day......grabbed a wheelchair and left him at the triage while I went and moved my car.
By the time I got back he was being treated.
Do you think we wanted to wait until they ran a credit check on us or grabbed the cash I might have remembered to grab (yeah right!) on our way?
This winter we left an ER after 3 hours but after triage and got sent a bill for several hundred dollars.
That 'fine' would cover (probably only partially)instances like that if there was no insurance or financial ability to pay.
Now, if monied people like you want to make pre-arrangements to ensure payment...fine but that is still a form of insurance...proof of ability to self insure.
I'm no economist, but I doubt that the taxes on the rich will be enough to cover the to 2 trillion dollar price tag. Are there that many millionaires in America to offset the millions of the uninsured that will be subsidized by this bill?
Does anyone have a link to the specific cuts that will be made to Medicare/Medicaid? I wonder if it will be across the board or hit certain areas of healthcare?
That is the problem.
Most people have no idea what $2 trillion is.
In 2004 it was estimated 1 in 125 people in the USA were millionaires. No doubt the number of millionaires has decreased but let's use the 1 in 125.
With a population of 300 million the USA has 2,400,000 millionaires.
Two trillion = $2,000,000,000,000.00
See what I am getting at?
If each and every millionaire paid $833,333.33 we would have our two trillion dollars.
Two trillion is two thousand billion. Remember, a trillion is with a "T".
I honestly do not believe most Americans have any idea how badly Congress and the administration screwed the American people over on their so called stimulus plan. I really don't.
Ok that brings us back to me as a healthcare provider should be able to refuse treatment until I receive payment up front from the uninsured. You are not free to take my labor.
The patient is brought into an ER unconscious. No family or friends with him/her.
They already have the right to demand payment that the insured is responsible for except for emergency service and it has to be a really emergency. I think the interesting part today is that anyone on medicaid can not change to the governamnt plan as they specificlly exclude them from the choice. That is because the government plaln as proposed is more expensive to provide for government. Also many democrats in the senate say the proposed tax hikes are dead on arrival as a way to pay for the government cost. Seems small buiness is ringing the phone off the wall in their states.The congressamn in very liberal district are given cover without it happenig is my thought; like vote no when you know a bill has the votes really.
I can't believe there isn't a thread about this already, so here goes.
What are your thoughts on this?
As soon as I saw that it will be a MANDATED plan (individuals are required to participate if they don't have other health insurance, or face a penalty equal to 2.5% of their adjusted gross income) I saw sixteen shades of red.
What the heck happened to Obama's promise that a government health insurance plan would not be "forced on anyone" but would merely be "one of several options"????
Here are the provisions as reported online:
-- A Health Insurance Exchange providing individuals and small business with choices for coverage, including a government-funded public option.
-- No more coverage exclusion for pre-existing conditions.
-- Affordability credits for low- and moderate-income individuals and families, available to those with incomes up to 400 percent of the federal poverty level, or $43,000 for individuals and $88,000 for a family of four.
-- Limits on annual out-of-pocket spending.
-- Expanded Medicaid coverage to individuals and families with incomes at or below 133 percent of the federal poverty level.
-- Required participation by individuals, with a penalty of 2.5 percent of adjusted gross income for non-compliance.
-- Requirement that businesses with payrolls exceeding $250,000 provide their employees with health insurance or contribute up to 8 percent of their payroll on their behalf.
-- A series of measures intended to reduce costs of Medicaid, Medicare and other existing systems.
I am okay with all of the above provisions EXCEPT the "required to participate" one. Just because Massachusetts did that, doesn't mean it's right or fair.
And btw I am one of the howevermanyMillion with NO health insurance coverage and am not likely to have any for another five years until I qualify for Medicare. So I should love this proposal, right? Well, sorry, people.... the fastest way to get me to oppose ANYTHING is to tell me that I HAVE TO join in (and at my own expense!) or else I will get fined.
Thoughts?
My thought is that if you get hit by a car or get cancer, or something and end up in the hospital, that I will end up paying for you to be there. How is that ok? How is it ok for those those of us with insurance to pay higher premiums so the hospitals can recoup the money that YOU are unable to pay for your care?
The patient is brought into an ER unconscious. No family or friends with him/her.
Then what?
That is my point, That is why people who can afford it should be required to have insurance. Again no one conscious or unconscious is entitled to my labor.
If someone does not want insurance (health) then, that should be their choice.
The Government is simply trying to take one more freedom away from Americans - the freedom of choice.
then that person should also go w/o treatment if he can't pay!
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