Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Minimum Wage is a concept created by people who think the purpose of companies is to create jobs rather than to earn money. It's hardly a surprise that most of them don't run companies.
Saw a cartoon four or five min-wage-increases ago. It showed a fast-food manager talking to his crew, seven or eight people who are gathered around him. He says:
"I have good news, and I have bad news.
"The good news is, the new minimum-wage law says I have to pay you more.
"The bad news is, I can't afford that, so two of you are fired."
-----------------------
Before minimum-wage laws became popular, you could pull into a gas station, and someone would come out and ask, "Regular or premium?" At the same time, someone else would check your car's oil and water levels, clean the windshield, put air in the tires, etc. Where are they now?
They were killed off by minimum-wage laws.
When they were doing those jobs, it was because the gas station owner had found out that, when they were working there and doing those things, more customers chose his station to buy gasoline. And enough extra customers came in, that he made enough additional profit to pay their (low) wages. So it was economically feasible for him to employ them, contributing to the purpose of the station (to earn money for the owner).
Enter the Minimum Wage. Suddenly the owner had to pay those people $8.00/hr (2008 dollars) instead of the $4.00/hr they had been willing to work for. And just as suddenly, the extra customers they brought in, no longer brought in enough profit to pay the windshield-cleaners' wages. Some raised their prices, but then found their customers started going to the place down the street that hadn't raised prices - those places had just fired the windshield-cleaners instead. Some divided their pumps into full-service and no-service, the full-service pumps having higher gas prices to pay for the extra people who worked only there. But not enough customers used the full-service pump, and the windshield-cleaners mostly sat idle. So before long, they were history. Now, thanks to Minimum-wage laws, extra entry-level workers who used to be worth employing, no longer were, and their jobs vanished.
Gone were their chances of getting bicycle money or bus fare. They now had to wait for a job (much rarer) to open up paying enought to support a car. Gone were their chances of getting an "easy" job that could give them their first experience and their first recommendation from a satisfied employer. Gone were their first chance to start developing a work ethic that would make them more likely to get a better job later.
Yes, Minimum Wage laws help people - the ones they don't fire.
Min Wage laws also help someone else: Unions. Most unions set their wage scales based on - you guessed it - the Minimum Wage. So when the Min Wage goes up, not only do the lowest-paid workers get more money, but the employer is forced to pay more money to his entire hourly-wage staff, including the most highly-paid ones. And since these employees who get more money today than yesterday, aren't bringing in any more profit today than they were yesterday, the fast-food scenario described above, applies.
Inflation is another subject. That's what you have, when the price of everything rises (goods, services, wages alike). When a company is forced to pay some or all of its workers more, while they aren't bringing in any more money than they used to, they have no choice but to raise prices. And they hope their competitors have the same problem and so can't lure their customers away. And the people buying their products find themselves paying more for no more goods, and so must raise their prices to make up. And so, prices rise everywhere, as wages rise. Sound familiar? Inflation has many causes. Minimum-wage increases are among them.
The "living wage" argument is especially ludicrous. Some people actually complain that the reason we need a higher Minimum Wage, is becausae you can't support a family of four on the (older) minimum wage.
Well, who on earth ever said you could? Or should?
This "argument" comes directly from those misguided souls who think companies exist to create jobs, not earn money for their owners. And who think that jobs exist to provide people a living, not to get work done for the company.
If you have a family of four to support, why are you working as a clerk at a stereo store, or picking apricots in an orchard? With no plans to move up to a better-paying job, get training at night school, etc.? Is it your employer's job to support your family? Or is it yours?
So much is wrong with the idea of a mandated Minimum Wage, that it takes more space tham we usually have in a forum like this. But there are a few of the high points.
Last edited by Little-Acorn; 07-24-2009 at 10:58 AM..
Minimum wage is sold to the people as if it is going to make new money appear out of nowhere. Nothing could be further from the truth. The money is going to come from somewhere. Either more work per person with less total headcount, or increased cost for consumers which across the board will eventually make the current minimum wage no longer enough which means another increase and on and on it goes. It is a joke really.
The Minimum Wage is a concept created by people who think the purpose of companies is to create jobs rather than to earn money. It's hardly a surprise that most of them don't run companies.
Saw a cartoon four or five min-wage-increases ago. It showed a fast-food manager talking to his crew, seven or eight people who are gathered around him. He says:
"I have good news, and I have bad news.
"The good news is, the new minimum-wage law says I have to pay you more.
"The bad news is, I can't afford that, so two of you are fired."
-----------------------
Before minimum-wage laws became popular, you could pull into a gas station, and someone would come out and ask, "Regular or premium?" At the same time, someone else would check your car's oil and water levels, clean the windshield, put air in the tires, etc. Where are they now?
They were killed off by minimum-wage laws.
When they were doing those jobs, it was because the gas station owner had found out that, when they were working there and doing those things, more customers chose his station to buy gasoline. And enough extra customers came in, that he made enough additional profit to pay their (low) wages. So it was economically feasible for him to employ them, contributing to the purpose of the station (to earn money for the owner).
Enter the Minimum Wage. Suddenly the owner had to pay those people $8.00/hr (2008 dollars) instead of the $4.00/hr they had been willing to work for. And just as suddenly, the extra customers they brought in, no longer brought in enough profit to pay the windshield-cleaners' wages. Some raised their prices, but then found their customers started going to the place down the street that hadn't raised prices - those places had just fired the windshield-cleaners instead. Some divided their pumps into full-service and no-service, the full-service pumps having higher gas prices to pay for the extra people who worked only there. But not enough customers used the full-service pump, and the windshield-cleaners mostly sat idle. So before long, they were history. Now, thanks to Minimum-wage laws, extra entry-level workers who used to be worth employing, no longer were, and their jobs vanished.
Yes, Minimum Wage laws help people - the ones they don't fire.
Min Wage laws also help someone else: Unions. Most unions set their wage scales based on - you guessed it - the Minimum Wage. So when the Min Wage goes up, not only do the lowest-paid workers get more money, but the employer is forced to pay more money to his entire hourly-wage staff, including the most highly-paid ones. And since these employees who get more money today than yesterday, aren't bringing in any more profit today than they were yesterday, the fast-food scenario described above, applies.
Inflation is another subject. That's what you have, when the price of everything rises (goods, services, wages alike). When a company is forced to pay some or all of its workers more, while they aren't bringing in any more money than they used to, they have no choice but to raise prices. And they hope their competitors have the same problem and so can't lure their customers away. And the people buying their products find themselves paying more for no more goods, and so must raise their prices to make up. And so, prices rise everywhere, as wages rise. Sound familiar? Inflation has many causes. Minimum-wage increases are among them.
The "living wage" argument is especially ludicrous. Some people actually complain that the reason we need a higher Minimum Wage, is becausae you can't support a family of four on the (older) minimum wage.
Well, who on earth ever said you could? Or should?
This "argument" comes directly from those misguided souls who think companies exist to create jobs, not earn money for their owners. And who think that jobs exist to provide people a living, not to get work done for the company.
If you have a family of four to support, why are you working as a clerk at a stereo store, or picking apricots in an orchard? With no plans to move up to a better-paying job, get training at night school, etc.? Is it your employer's job to support your family? Or is it yours?
So much is wrong with the idea of a mandated Minimum Wage, that it takes more space tham we usually have in a forum like this. But there are a few of the high points.
I dislike the coupling of the words "minimum wage" and "living wage". Minimum wage is not meant to raise a family, send the kids to college, and invest into retirement. Minimum wage is for the teenager who needs to get a start in the workforce, pay for pizza on Friday night, and maybe take a date to the movie. Beyond that minimum wage earners are secondary incomes within a household. Living wage comes after you apply yourself with an education, and some hard work to get where you need to be.
Soon we will be paying $12.00/hr to these same un-appreciative teens who think I owe them a job, and I should just be happy they decided to show up 30 min late.
Life is achieved through hard work and tenacity. Minimum wage is the starting point, where you learn basic skills to move forward.
I have to wonder, are there actually people in this country, who are working for minimum wage, who complain that their wages aren't enough to support a family on?
Or is it just self-appointed "spokesmen" who ask the question for them, without checking with them to see if they feel the question is ridiculous?
I mean, it does not take a genius to figure out that minimum wage should be raised in a booming economy not a recovering economy.
Well, "recovering" is subjective at this point. We're not sure we're recovering yet.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
