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Old 08-03-2009, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,067,914 times
Reputation: 954

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libohove90 View Post
The big reason why we haven't already been using these efficient energy sources (solar, wind, geothermal) is because there is no profit for it. Who would want to sell solar energy? Because of its almost-infinite amount, there would be no reason people should buy it for it should be free in the first place. Oh well, money makes the world go around and money is the world's #1 problem.
That will surprise the investors who built over 9000 MW of wind in 2008. They all think they will make a decent profit. The concerns over costs do explains the steady decline in coal capacity over the last few years.
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,729,131 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
That will surprise the investors who built over 9000 MW of wind in 2008. They all think they will make a decent profit. The concerns over costs do explains the steady decline in coal capacity over the last few years.
INVESTORS is the key word here. Not the ratepayer or in most cases the Utility, unless you're an IO like FPL. Much of the profit you so gleefully mention is going into a few pockets including many foreign ones.....The rest of us are loosing our shirts whether we know it or not.....
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:11 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
They all think they will make a decent profit. .
Certainly when you have government subsidizing it to the tune of almost 1/3 the retail cost of the national average. Most companies don't even have a 1/3 profit margin let alone someone handing it to them.

Austin, Texas where the Green Energy rates are 3X the standard rate
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:04 PM
 
765 posts, read 1,861,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Correct but for the wrong reasons, solar in particular for photovoltaic is enormously expensive to build. For example there is planned installation in my area and the initial estimate is $65 million and they expect it to service about 1500 homes and that's probably a best case scenario. If my understanding is correct they expect it to be operational for 40 years with a slow decline over those years.

Even with those estimates That's $43,000 per household installation costs only. Spread out over forty years that's $300 a year more than the average yearly utility bill. To that we need to add the maintenance for forty years, they have a 30 year lease in the land with options for another 10 years ....AND the people that are investing in this will certainly want their share of the pie.

Other renewables are all in the same boat.
Exactly why I said money is the issue. The only reason the world isn't using these clean and efficient sources of energy is because of money. The flaw in my opinion is when concerned of the technology, the question is "how much does it cost" and not "can we do it". We are affecting the globe and polluting it, and the excuse is that it is too expensive to use solar and geothermal energy? Come on now...this is arrogant human behavior where we cannot simply do something of profound importance that will benefit everyone and provide a cleaner world. This effort should be priceless because you can't bring money in the equation when you are negatively affecting the biosphere, the only world that we actually live in. The energy companies don't want that scenario because they will be broke.
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:09 PM
 
12,270 posts, read 11,331,859 times
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Some very smart people are predicting $20 a barrel oil.

Oil Prices Headed Lower? - MarketBeat - WSJ

CARPE DIEM: Energy Expert: Oil Will Fall to $20 a Barrel
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:16 PM
 
765 posts, read 1,861,252 times
Reputation: 504
I would love to live in a world where we don't use oil and gas (for the most part at least). I want human beings to use clean and efficient energy where we are not polluting the planet. I want human beings to not worry about costs of electricity, heating, and air-conditioning. I want human beings to not pay anything (like gas) to keep their cars running.

This scenario is actually within our reach but we are faced with a "greater dilemma" being the energy companies do not want to lose business. The motive for profit so so powerful, it holds us back. Ahhh what can you do now but fantasize?
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:07 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libohove90 View Post
This scenario is actually within our reach but we are faced with a "greater dilemma" being the energy companies do not want to lose business.
Produce a cost effective model and you can put them out of business, it's only time before that happens. Matter of fact the less government sticks its nose where it doesn't belong the faster it will happen. Greed is powerful thing and cheap energy is a very large plum.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,067,914 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
INVESTORS is the key word here. Not the ratepayer or in most cases the Utility, unless you're an IO like FPL. Much of the profit you so gleefully mention is going into a few pockets including many foreign ones.....The rest of us are loosing our shirts whether we know it or not.....
Yeah LOL many utilities will be the losers. There were a lot of companies making buggy whips right to the end.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:06 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,871,484 times
Reputation: 1750
Here we go coalman, its the most comprehensive analysis of coal reserves i've seen:

Peak coal by 2025 say researchers | Energy Bulletin

http://www.energywatchgroup.org/file...-07-2007ms.pdf
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Old 08-04-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,933,875 times
Reputation: 10028
Quote:
Originally Posted by archineer View Post
Here we go coalman, its the most comprehensive analysis of coal reserves i've seen:
!!!??? Even as a sustainable energy advocate I couldn't take seriously the findings of a panel funded by a list of Solar, Wind and other sustainable energy concerns about the future of a fossil fuel source! I'm not even going to read that thing. Even if coal reserves are going to peak in 3011 coal is not a source of energy that should seriously be considered for further development. It is a dirty form of energy and it does not help the CO2 situation. Whether you believe in Anthrpormorphic Global Warming or not, CO2 is undeniably a greenhouse gas and to intentionally put more of it into the atmosphere while cognisant of the fact that said atmosphere is heating is criminally irresponsible. Aircraft used to be made of wood. Now there are aluminum alloys and even carbon fiber composites that are lighter, yet stronger. There is still plenty of wood. Should we go back to using wood for aircraft simply because it is plenitful?

H
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