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View Poll Results: What will happen down the road when Obamacare starts running out of money?
Taxes will be raised. 29 72.50%
Health care will be rationed. 20 50.00%
People with expensive, debilitating illnesses will get reduced care, more painkillers etc. 16 40.00%
Waiting times for non-elective treatments will increase, to months or years. 17 42.50%
Govt will start deciding whether old folks with just a few years left, should get full health care or not. 16 40.00%
Barack Obama will be blamed. 15 37.50%
Congress will be blamed. 11 27.50%
George W. Bush will be blamed. 9 22.50%
Canadians who need more care than THEIR govt health-care system provides, will stop coming here. 9 22.50%
Other (if you choose this option, please explain in your post) 4 10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-11-2009, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
380 posts, read 1,058,593 times
Reputation: 254

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This will have to be paid for by more than just those who make $250,000.00 a year. As usual the Middle Class will pay out the most. Health care providers need to be regulated, and providers should be allowed to operate over state lines to get more competitive choices open to folks. The health care bill is going to cost the taxpayer plenty-if you are okay with this, then so be it.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:59 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,864,597 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
There's a significant percentage of our population that pay nothing in federal taxes. For them, it will be free. And yes, that's exactly why we're on the path we're on - they'll just keep voting themselves more and more freebies.
This is lost on the majority of people posting here...
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:16 PM
 
Location: PNW
689 posts, read 742,766 times
Reputation: 159
The magic money fairy will come and replenish us. Isn't all this stuff free? Don't we just get it? I'm just kidding.

Seriously though...I DO believe that is all you have to do is print more. It's not that big of a deal.
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Great Falls, Montana
4,002 posts, read 3,903,985 times
Reputation: 1398
heh heh ... we don't even have the money to get it started and we're already talking about the program running out of money?

We Americans are sure a presumptuous lot .. aren't we?
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:48 PM
 
838 posts, read 922,137 times
Reputation: 186
It's a fact that they are planning to actually make money on this expensive health care reform, and this is what is scary because sooner or later it means rationing and less patients. We owe China too much and one day they will stop loaning, then what?
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:10 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,780,337 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDTD2.0 View Post
Seriously though...I DO believe that is all you have to do is print more. It's not that big of a deal.
Glad you think so.

Remember that bank account or CD where you socked away enough to buy your kids a college education, or that new car, or the down payment on that house?

After the govt prints more money, resultinng in Carter-level inflation for years, that account will suddenly be unable to pay for any of those things. Their prices more than doubled, but the amount in your account or CD didn't.

Sucker.

Inflation is just another word for "Theft from people who tried to save money".

Glad you don't think it's a big deal. You're the kind of chump the government is looking for, to pay for their schemes in this way.

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Old 08-12-2009, 08:15 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,780,337 times
Reputation: 4174
BTW, ever wonder why the Left hates Ronald Reagan to virulently? Aside from cutting taxes and showing the Leftists how wrong they were about taxing-and-spending, he also indexed tax brackets to inflation.

Gone were the days when someone who got a raise to keep up with rising prices of everything, suddenly found himself paying 30% in taxes instead of the 20% he paid a few years ago. Even though his salary wouldn't buy any more today, than it did back then.

Inflation was a built-in tax-increase generator, and politicians didn't even have to get blamed for it. But that's gone now, thanks to Reagan.

The Left will never forgive him for that.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:42 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,864,851 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
BTW, ever wonder why the Left hates Ronald Reagan to virulently? Aside from cutting taxes and showing the Leftists how wrong they were about taxing-and-spending, he also indexed tax brackets to inflation.

Gone were the days when someone who got a raise to keep up with rising prices of everything, suddenly found himself paying 30% in taxes instead of the 20% he paid a few years ago. Even though his salary wouldn't buy any more today, than it did back then.

Inflation was a built-in tax-increase generator, and politicians didn't even have to get blamed for it. But that's gone now, thanks to Reagan.

The Left will never forgive him for that.
I don't see the Presidency as a morality play. I don't look back at the actions of Presidents, at their policies, and think about things like forgiveness. It doesn't seem like a productive way to me to evaluate the policies and programs of various administrations. Every policy, every law, has a negative impact on someone. Every policy, every law, has short-term and long-term impacts. I think forgiveness involves introducing a morality component into the government that leads us down a road pitted with religious arguments, and that that's a waste of time. I want my Presidents to be good men, men who have values and integrity. But I want my leaders to be pragmatic as well. There are men in history whose sins are so egregious that I could never forgive them as a human being. But none of the men who've led the United States have committed such terrible sins. They make mistakes. They act precipitously. But even Presidents who I've disliked I think have acted according to what they perceived as the best interests of this country. And that requires no forgiveness.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:41 AM
 
7 posts, read 11,007 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Insurance companies make a killing. This government option is going to be free. There is still going to be premiums just like any other health insurance. If the cost of the program goes up then premiums can be increased to keep up with cost.

But, of course, you didnt want to include a logical option in your poll.
So, if It's good for you then it's good for everyone And the argument that insurance companies are making a killing has no merit. Costs for insurance companies are increasing exponentially every year largely due expensive testing and scans to protect Physicians from malpractice. If the insured behaved more as consumers, "shopping" for better pricing, costs would be better contained.

The better option is not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Our current system is far from perfect, but it's still the best one on the planet. Why not perfect it rather than replace it? A government option does nothing to promote competition or capitalism as Obama claims. As long as there is no level playing field and the Gov't plan can continue to lose money (paid for by us that pay taxes) private insurers will not be able to compete and Obamacare will be defacto.

The better option is to START with the following:
1. Tort reform
2. Health Care Savings Accounts to promote consumerism.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:31 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,864,851 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mexigal View Post
So, if It's good for you then it's good for everyone And the argument that insurance companies are making a killing has no merit. Costs for insurance companies are increasing exponentially every year largely due expensive testing and scans to protect Physicians from malpractice. If the insured behaved more as consumers, "shopping" for better pricing, costs would be better contained.

The better option is not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Our current system is far from perfect, but it's still the best one on the planet. Why not perfect it rather than replace it? A government option does nothing to promote competition or capitalism as Obama claims. As long as there is no level playing field and the Gov't plan can continue to lose money (paid for by us that pay taxes) private insurers will not be able to compete and Obamacare will be defacto.

The better option is to START with the following:
1. Tort reform
2. Health Care Savings Accounts to promote consumerism.
Actually, the argument that insurance companies are making a killing has considerable merit, based on their record earnings during the past decade. Especially when you consider the runaway costs of healthcare during that same period.

As to the current system being far from perfect, and the best one on the planet, well that's debatable. People who have good insurance coverage may think it's the best, but even people with insurance are afraid of getting sick not because they fear the illness, but because they fear the bills. Most people have co-pays, so just having insurance doesn't insure that you won't go broke if you have to be hospitalized for any period of time. And worse, your insurance carrier can deny claims, or can drop your coverage once they've identified you as a liability risk. And then what are you going to do?

Tort reform gets touted as a way to reduce costs, but when tort reforms have been passed, have insurance premiums in those jurisdictions gone down? Nope, they've risen along with insurance premiums nationwide, sometimes doubling.

The systemic problems with healthcare in the United States are going to be exacerbated by the aging population and baby-boomers who have only begun to retire. The burden on our economy will be insupportable unless we start addressing the problems today. And tort reform and healthcare savings accounts are completely inadequate to the problems.
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