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I'm opposed to a government option and Obamacare. However, I do think discussing End-of-Life issues and creating a living will is a very good thing. There are a lot of misconceptions regarding this issue. What people don't realize is that we end up discussing these options with patients anyway. The problem is we do this when the patients are admitted in the hospital and they have no advanced directive or living will. It's really a sad thing because when I explain what DNR is to patients, 90% of the time they respond with bewilderment because they had preconceived notions as to what it entailed.
For example, when I used to admit patients, I would ask them "Do you want to be resuscitated" The immediate answer was always "No Doc, I don't want to be put on a respirator if I'm a vegetable so yes put me as DNR" Most patients don't realize there is a difference between trying to treat you with antibiotics, intubation, CPR, cardioversion etc versus keeping a patient on cardiopulmonary resuscitation when they are permanently unable to breath on their own. When I explain the difference between the two, their answer changes almost every time.
These issues do need to be discussed with patients in advance. It can save the patients and their families a lot of pain. There is a lot of terminology the public doesn't understand. We are not looking for a particular answer. We just want to know how they would proceed because what often happens in the hospital, is doctors and nurses waste a lot of time trying to hunt for a possible advanced directive or then the families argue or the families don't want to be given this responsibility because they don't know what their loved one wanted and don't want to guess. Ultimately, we want to honor the patient's wishes.
Regardless of what happens in this bill, people should ask their doctors about these issues and what the term DNR means etc. Seriously, throw the politics out and the next time you see your primary care physician, ask what these terms mean and ask how you can go about possibly getting an advanced directive written. Like I said, I'm against Obamacare and socialzing medicine but this is an important issue that got spun out of control. I agree that a physician should not have ultimate control or that a patient must be forced to be counseled on these issues. But I don't think the bill was asking for that. It was simply Medicare having a code that would reimburse physicians for discussing these issues which would provide the patient with enough time to have their questions answered thoroughly regarding this issues versus having a cursory 2 minute discussion about it during a check-up.
The fact that you used the term Obamacare already tells us where you're coming from and not looking for a serious discussion.
And it's obvious you didn't read my response. I actually agree with Obama and the Democrats on this particular issue. If you would have read my response, ou would have known that instead of assuming you already knew what I was saying. Next time, try and read before coming to false conclusions.
And it's obvious you didn't read my response. I actually agree with Obama and the Democrats on this particular issue. Next time, try and read before coming to false conclusions.
I agree with you and the health care plan. We're finding out in the last few days that the language in the bill was put there by a GOP'er from a southern state, and that Sarah Palin signed a proclamation while she was Governor of AK that was highly supportive of ELC counseling.
Discussing ELC is not a bad thing, it's just a part of the GOP strategy to make Obama look like a failed president. The people behind this vicious spinning of harmless standard procedure don't care who they hurt or kill, as long as they win back the White House.
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I'm opposed to a government option and Obamacare. However, I do think discussing End-of-Life issues and creating a living will is a very good thing. There are a lot of misconceptions regarding this issue. What people don't realize is that we end up discussing these options with patients anyway. The problem is we do this when the patients are admitted in the hospital and they have no advanced directive or living will. It's really a sad thing because when I explain what DNR is to patients, 90% of the time they respond with bewilderment because they had preconceived notions as to what it entailed.
For example, when I used to admit patients, I would ask them "Do you want to be resuscitated" The immediate answer was always "No Doc, I don't want to be put on a respirator if I'm a vegetable so yes put me as DNR" Most patients don't realize there is a difference between trying to treat you with antibiotics, intubation, CPR, cardioversion etc versus keeping a patient on cardiopulmonary resuscitation when they are permanently unable to breath on their own. When I explain the difference between the two, their answer changes almost every time.
These issues do need to be discussed with patients in advance. It can save the patients and their families a lot of pain. There is a lot of terminology the public doesn't understand. We are not looking for a particular answer. We just want to know how they would proceed because what often happens in the hospital, is doctors and nurses waste a lot of time trying to hunt for a possible advanced directive or then the families argue or the families don't want to be given this responsibility because they don't know what their loved one wanted and don't want to guess. Ultimately, we want to honor the patient's wishes.
Regardless of what happens in this bill, people should ask their doctors about these issues and what the term DNR means etc. Seriously, throw the politics out and the next time you see your primary care physician, ask what these terms mean and ask how you can go about possibly getting an advanced directive written. Like I said, I'm against Obamacare and socialzing medicine but this is an important issue that got spun out of control. I agree that a physician should not have ultimate control or that a patient must be forced to be counseled on these issues. But I don't think the bill was asking for that. It was simply Medicare having a code that would reimburse physicians for discussing these issues which would provide the patient with enough time to have their questions answered thoroughly regarding this issues versus having a cursory 2 minute discussion about it during a check-up.
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My living will was written at our attorney's office; she had a form listing the same questions as are on your patient's admission papers. The insurance lobby has spent $500 million in the first quarter of this year alone to fight HC reform. There is a tremendous amount of money being spent to
sink this bill, and not for the benefit of the American people. When you see that Bush, Palin, Gingrich and Limbaugh have endorsed advance directives in the past but are demonizing it today, you have to ask yourself why, and whether their level of ethics deserves your support. You are correct; the bill offered people the option of using that counseling service every five years. Having been a nurse myself, I'm quite clear that a living will does not equal euthanasia. Again, why is the dishonesty there?
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My living will was written at our attorney's office; she had a form listing the same questions as are on your patient's admission papers. The insurance lobby has spent $500 million in the first quarter of this year alone to fight HC reform. There is a tremendous amount of money being spent to
sink this bill, and not for the benefit of the American people. When you see that Bush, Palin, Gingrich and Limbaugh have endorsed advance directives in the past but are demonizing it today, you have to ask yourself why, and whether their level of ethics deserves your support. You are correct; the bill offered people the option of using that counseling service every five years. Having been a nurse myself, I'm quite clear that a living will does not equal euthanasia. Again, why is the dishonesty there?
Unfortunately politics divide people and force us to choose sides when the reality is there are merits to both party's ideaologies. I do agree with the Republican's stance because I don't believe in the public option. I don't think it will solve what it's designed to do and instead I think it will lower the quality of healthcare.
Discussing ELC is not a bad thing, it's just a part of the GOP strategy to make Obama look like a failed president. The people behind this vicious spinning of harmless standard procedure don't care who they hurt or kill, as long as they win back the White House.
I agree that this is being used as party warfare because it instills fear in people. That being said, these dirty tactics are being employed by both parties regarding health care reform. Obama is doing the same thing by telling the American public they will still be able to keep their private insurance when in reality, most people are covered through their employer and it's likely these employers will stop covering their employees through private insurance if a public option becomes available.
I agree with you and the health care plan. We're finding out in the last few days that the language in the bill was put there by a GOP'er from a southern state, and that Sarah Palin signed a proclamation while she was Governor of AK that was highly supportive of ELC counseling.
Discussing ELC is not a bad thing, it's just a part of the GOP strategy to make Obama look like a failed president. The people behind this vicious spinning of harmless standard procedure don't care who they hurt or kill, as long as they win back the White House.
The Gop doesn't have to make Obama look like a failed president, he's doing pretty good all on his own. ELC should not be a mandate. That's why they took it out, and then made excuses for it which you believe. It shouldn't have been there.
I agree that this is being used as party warfare because it instills fear in people. That being said, these dirty tactics are being employed by both parties regarding health care reform. Obama is doing the same thing by telling the American public they will still be able to keep their private insurance when in reality, most people are covered through their employer and it's likely these employers will stop covering their employees through private insurance if a public option becomes available.
And the baseless right-wing hysteria can now claim a sad victory: the end-of-life counseling provision has been struck from the House bill.
Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_2 - broken link)
Propaganda at its best. It's a tragedy.
So if some of us are just the slightest bit wary when we hear more propaganda by conservatives regarding portions of proposed legislation, it is because we have seen the damage it can cause.
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It's a tragedy.
