Bread and Circuses

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by ergohead

The Vatican rules Rome today!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... The Vatican rules a little speck of land in Rome. The Vatican used to have influence over monarchs of europe and controlled the Papal States. Through the middle ages, ambitious monarchs used the church to gain power, not vice versa. "Loyalty" to the church and The Vatican was mostly lip service to achieve political and economic goals. Unfortunately, the corruption of the church in the middle ages has brought many to ignore the word of Christ, due to the failings of institutions claiming to be his messengers. I think that the modern catholic church has really cleaned up its act, but still has a long way to go with the child molestation issue on the part of some of the priests. I still feel as though they have many more positive attributes than negatives, but obviously the abomination of child molestation by a few priests is a terrible legacy, as well the other sins of the church in the past.

[jimhcom]

Are you saying the military was not present at Waco? (Hint, do some research before answering, the Posse Comitatus act has nothing to do with FBI, the military must be involved to in order for it to be waved.)

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by jimhcom

Are you saying the military was not present at Waco? (Hint, do some research before answering, the Posse Comitatus act has nothing to do with FBI, the military must be involved to in order for it to be waved.)

It is up to you to prove they were. The ATF and FBI were involved, not the US military.

If you are speaking of the Special Forces training the ATF recieved prior to the assault, or the disarmed Bradly's and CEV's loaned to the FBI, sorry to inform you that this does not step on the PCAct.

[Gary Siete]

Waco Siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Special Counsel considered whether the use of active duty military at Waco violated the Posse Comitatus Act or the Military Assistance to Law Enforcement Act. These statutes generally prohibit direct military participation in law enforcement functions, but do not preclude indirect support such as loaning equipment, training in the use of equipment, offering expert advice, and providing equipment maintenance. The Special Counsel noted that the military provided “extensive” loans of equipment to the ATF and FBI including, among other things, two tanks the offensive capability of which had been disabled. Additionally, the military provided more limited advice, training, and medical support. The Special Counsel concluded that these actions amounted to indirect military assistance within the bounds of applicable law. The Texas National Guard, in its state status, also provided substantial loans of military equipment, as well as performing reconnaissance flights over the Davidian complex. Because the Posse Comitatus Act does not apply to the National Guard in its state status, the Special Counsel determined that the National Guard lawfully provided its assistance.

[jimhcom]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

It is up to you to prove they were. The ATF and FBI were involved, not the US military.

If you are speaking of the Special Forces training the ATF recieved prior to the assault, or the disarmed Bradly's and CEV's loaned to the FBI, sorry to inform you that this does not step on the PCAct.

They were clearly involved as the wavier would have not been filed otherwise. In addition they tried desperatly to cover up their level of involvement as is shown in the article below.


"MILITARY DOCUMENTS DESTROYED

FRONTLINE has obtained documents that show yet another
component of the puzzle that we see unfolding about us.
Documents that have been obtained by FRONTLINE show that the
US Military destroyed "all files" concerning the support
mission at Waco on or about October 1, 1994 about a year and
a half after the fire that destroyed the Davidian compound
and almost a year before Congressional hearings into the
series of events now characterized as Waco. In other words
important files were discovered during the course of a
Congressional investigation.

The document, a United States Army Special Forces
Command "Staff Action Summary Sheet" on the subject of the
"DISPOSITION OF FILES REGARDING USASFC COUNTERDRUG SUPPORT
IN WACO. TEXAS" is dated November 21, 1994 is a routine
enough report. DOCUMENT CAN BE SEEN AT fps1999.webjump.com

SPECIAL FORCES INVOLVEMENT

Other information that can be gleaned from this docu-
ment include the fact that the mission originated in Febru-
ary of 1993, and was carried out by Joint Task Force Six and
the 3rd Special Forces Group.

According to the US Army Joint Task force Six can be
described as follows: "Joint Task Force Six (JTF-6), located
at Biggs Army Airfield, Fort Bliss, Texas, is assigned to
U.S. Atlantic Command, under the operational control of the
U.S. Forces Command. JTF-6 is a multi-service command com-
prised of approximately 159 soldiers, sailors, Marines,
airmen, and civilians employees. JTF-6's role in the coun-
terdrug effort is articulated in its mission statement: JTF-
6 synchronizes and integrates DOD operational, technologi-
cal, training and intelligence support to domestic law
enforcement agencies' counterdrug efforts in the continental
United States to reduce the availability of illegal drugs in
the United States. "
The very fact that Special Forces command had a concern
as to the disposition of files regarding the operation
raises troubling questions regarding the actual involvement
of the US Military at Waco"

By. John Culbertson,
Frontline

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by jimhcom

They were clearly involved as the wavier would have not been filed otherwise. In addition they tried desperatly to cover up their level of involvement as is shown in the article below.


"MILITARY DOCUMENTS DESTROYED

FRONTLINE has obtained documents that show yet another
component of the puzzle that we see unfolding about us.
Documents that have been obtained by FRONTLINE show that the
US Military destroyed "all files" concerning the support
mission at Waco on or about October 1, 1994 about a year and
a half after the fire that destroyed the Davidian compound
and almost a year before Congressional hearings into the
series of events now characterized as Waco. In other words
important files were discovered during the course of a
Congressional investigation.

The document, a United States Army Special Forces
Command "Staff Action Summary Sheet" on the subject of the
"DISPOSITION OF FILES REGARDING USASFC COUNTERDRUG SUPPORT
IN WACO. TEXAS" is dated November 21, 1994 is a routine
enough report. DOCUMENT CAN BE SEEN AT fps1999.webjump.com

SPECIAL FORCES INVOLVEMENT

Other information that can be gleaned from this docu-
ment include the fact that the mission originated in Febru-
ary of 1993, and was carried out by Joint Task Force Six and
the 3rd Special Forces Group.

According to the US Army Joint Task force Six can be
described as follows: "Joint Task Force Six (JTF-6), located
at Biggs Army Airfield, Fort Bliss, Texas, is assigned to
U.S. Atlantic Command, under the operational control of the
U.S. Forces Command. JTF-6 is a multi-service command com-
prised of approximately 159 soldiers, sailors, Marines,
airmen, and civilians employees. JTF-6's role in the coun-
terdrug effort is articulated in its mission statement: JTF-
6 synchronizes and integrates DOD operational, technologi-
cal, training and intelligence support to domestic law
enforcement agencies' counterdrug efforts in the continental
United States to reduce the availability of illegal drugs in
the United States. "
The very fact that Special Forces command had a concern
as to the disposition of files regarding the operation
raises troubling questions regarding the actual involvement
of the US Military at Waco"

By. John Culbertson,
Frontline

Frontline, credible sourse... not.

You're conspiracy theory is quickly destroyed by the simple fact that there was NO Army, Marine, Air Force or Navy personell present.

Hiding such people would've been difficult to accomplish considering the blanket of media on this regretable incident.

Also, Gary Siete's post above yours should show you that the PCAct, and indeed any other acts, simply do not apply to this situation as it was a total SNAFU on part of Federal and Local, non-military, policing agiencies ie Sherriffs, ATF, and FBI.

NO US Military was directly involved.

[jimhcom]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

Frontline, credible sourse... not.

You're conspiracy theory is quickly destroyed by the simple fact that there was NO Army, Marine, Air Force or Navy personell present.

Hiding such people would've been difficult to accomplish considering the blanket of media on this regretable incident.

Also, Gary Siete's post above yours should show you that the PCAct, and indeed any other acts, simply do not apply to this situation as it was a total SNAFU on part of Federal and Local, non-military, policing agiencies ie Sherriffs, ATF, and FBI.

NO US Military was directly involved.

You accept the credibility of Wikipedia, but not PBS/Frontline, that speaks volumes about your own credibility.

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by jimhcom

You accept the credibility of Wikipedia, but not PBS/Frontline, that speaks volumes about your own credibility.

A source whose credibility is easily collaberated by the simple fact that no military personell were present, as opposed to a TV Magazine television show that MUST rely on ratings to stay afloat?

No contest.