*****Health Care Thread (part three)***** (New York, health care system, premium, death)

[NCyank]

Funny....you add in plenty of 'ifs' in your justification but Obama didn't say 'if'. He didn't say "Your taxes won't go up IF you have the right healthcare plan." He said....

no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase.

You can't spin this away TM.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by NCyank

Funny....you add in plenty of 'ifs' in your justification but Obama didn't say 'if'. He didn't say "Your taxes won't go up IF you have the right healthcare plan." He said....

You can't spin this away TM.

You are right - while some might try to spin it away - the fact remains, Obama said what he said.

And why on earth should someone who has a great insurance program (the "Cadillac" plan) have to give up the plan so they won't be taxed?

Oh, I got it - Obama (and TM by her own words) don't want "you" to have a Cadillac when others can only afford a Chevy Aveo

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

You are right - while some might try to spin it away - the fact remains, Obama said what he said.

And why on earth should someone who has a great insurance program (the "Cadillac" plan) have to give up the plan so they won't be taxed?

Oh, I got it - Obama (and TM by her own words) don't want "you" to have a Cadillac when others can only afford a Chevy Aveo

Well.. GD..

Everyone complains about the cost of health care reforms..

And so one way to pay for it is so that those with the "luxury" plans get taxed for having an excessive.. YES EXCESSIVE plan..

Or.. I suppose the rest of us should go without insurance so the snobs can have their "Cadillac" plans

Please..

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Funny.. in arguments with those about the health care issue many argue that a part of the problem with health care is that people are not "feeling the costs" of going to the Dr. for every little "thing" because of the plans that require no or little out of pocket for familes.

AND, by the way, Cadillac plans are plans that have low deductibles and out of pocket co-pays and no limits on such how many visits, etc.

Many on the side that opposes reform often site the fact that people are going to the doctor more frequently because they don't have to pay more than $20 for a visit and unlimited amount of visits. That more tests are given with those that have such plans and patients do not question BECAUSE they do not have a high deductible or a higher out of pocket co-pay on such procedures OR limitations.

It would seem that the tax on these "cadillac " plans are combating and causing penalties against just the very practice that is said to contribute to just such a thing.

This tax on those "cadillac plans" are meant to limit just that ..excessive use of a system with NO consequence to the person that uses it.

As I've stated.. I think that copays SHOULD be higher for Dr. Visits. AS a matter of fact, to see my regular Doctor would be $60. THat isn't much at all.

Yet to see my endocronologist is $250 just to walk into the door.

Many of those "cadillac" plans do not require any authorization for someone to go to a specialist. So, in essence, if Joe Smith has a belly ache and suddenly thinks he has a gastro-intestinal problem he can bypass the $60 office visit with his primary care (general practitioner) and go right to the specialist for $250 (not including tests)..when , in fact, he could have avoided that costs (not incurred by him , mind you.. all it cost him was $20) by going to his regular Dr. first for an evaluation to see if he truly needed to see a specialist... But to him, the "cost" doesn't matter. Whereas, if he had to pay more to see the specialist he may consider getting the once over from his regular Dr. first to see if his problem warrants having to spend that extra coin on a specialist!

Instead, we should encourage plans that have a slightly higher out of pocket and deductible, but lower premiums...

THEN a person will need to be more personally responsible for their health decisions, and even their health..

Isn't the word personal responsibility the same ones that your side throws around a lot? Where is the personal responsibility in a plan that costs an employer $25K and that allows for excessive use of the health care system without feeling any burden of that excess?

For the most part, in places that do not have public transportation, we all may have a need for a vehicle to get to work, but we all do not certainly need to have a Lambourghini to get to said work.

By the same token, if people want the luxury of wonton Dr. visits at a whim with a cadillac plan, then by all means pay the high premiums if you can afford it.. otherwise, you will be fine with a non cadillac plan.

Yup.. this health care plan needs to be paid for ..I get that.. and I have no problem taxing excess to pay for it.

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by Greatday

You are right - while some might try to spin it away - the fact remains, Obama said what he said.

And why on earth should someone who has a great insurance program (the "Cadillac" plan) have to give up the plan so they won't be taxed?

Oh, I got it - Obama (and TM by her own words) don't want "you" to have a Cadillac when others can only afford a Chevy Aveo

Honestly I don't have a great insurance plan...there's far better, more expensive plans in my company but I chose one that is affordable to me.

It seems if you are in anything above an HMO then you are in a cadillac plan. I've tried the HMO and they simply suck. I have the money to afford a little better coverage that gives me a choice of doctors and coverage.

So I should be penalized ? Obama also said if you are happy with your plan then nothing changes for you. That's yet another false statement.

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Yup.. this health care plan needs to be paid for ..I get that.. and I have no problem taxing excess to pay for it.

Of course you don't..you aren't going to be paying any of those taxes.
When it doesn't hit your wallet, then you don't care where it comes from.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Well.. GD..

Everyone complains about the cost of health care reforms..

And so one way to pay for it is so that those with the "luxury" plans get taxed for having an excessive.. YES EXCESSIVE plan...

Why is my insurance plan, that I sought out, and I pay for "excessive"? And how dare YOU try to tell me that my insurance is "excessive"?

OBTW: My PCP co-pay is $20. No referral needed for specialist. Co-pay for specialist is $25.00.

It's what I wanted - I made the choice. Now, the government (and you) want to penalize me for my personal choices - for exercising my freedom of choice.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

Of course you don't..you aren't going to be paying any of those taxes.
When it doesn't hit your wallet, then you don't care where it comes from.

That's BS.. because if you read the rest of my post I think that higher deductibles and copays need to be paid BY THE INDIVIDUALS when utilizing their Doctors, tests etc.

And.. um.. that would mean that I would pay more.

Yes, you're right.. I wouldn't be paying the tax on those "cadillac" plans.. because I wouldn't BUY a "cadillac" plan nor could I afford a "cadillac" plan....

ANd yes, I would receive a subisidy to pay for insurance.

But you know what..I'd trade my subsidy ANY DAY to be making OVER the $88K /year mark.. THEN I wouldn't be receiving ANY subsidy.

hell.. I would trade any tax breaks I get as a middle class earner to be in a higher tax bracket ANY DAY!

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Why is my insurance plan, that I sought out, and I pay for "excessive"? And how dare YOU try to tell me that my insurance is "excessive"?

Cake and eat it too.

You want to tout that the problem with the health care system is too much use by those that do not bear the costs for it directly..

But then you want to ALSO be the CAUSE of the same problem.

Make up your mind.

Oh .. but wait.. you tout that your insurance plan is "cheap" and only a couple hundred dollars a month (many times on the board) which puts you WELL below the "cadillac" plan threshold.. of $21K a year!

but NOW you are claiming you have a cadillac plan? LOL

Which one is it GD?

I guess it is whichever fits the argument at the moment huh?

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Cake and eat it too.

You want to tout that the problem with the health care system is too much use by those that do not bear the costs for it directly..

But then you want to ALSO be the CAUSE of the same problem.

Make up your mind.

Oh .. but wait.. you tout that your insurance plan is "cheap" and only a couple hundred dollars a month (many times on the board) which puts you WELL below the "cadillac" plan threshold..

but NOW you are claiming you have a cadillac plan? LOL

Which one is it GD?

I guess it is whichever fits the argument at the moment huh?

Read back TM - I have said, repeatedly, that I pay $1,000 @ month.

I go to any doctor I want - any hospital

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Cake and eat it too.

You want to tout that the problem with the health care system is too much use by those that do not bear the costs for it directly..

But then you want to ALSO be the CAUSE of the same problem.

Make up your mind.

Oh .. but wait.. you tout that your insurance plan is "cheap" and only a couple hundred dollars a month (many times on the board) which puts you WELL below the "cadillac" plan threshold.. of $21K a year!

but NOW you are claiming you have a cadillac plan? LOL

Which one is it GD?

I guess it is whichever fits the argument at the moment huh?

TM..there are several threshold numbers floating out there. Don't assume the number you read is the number. I've read $15K and that hits many more white collar workers. I've also read $20K, $21K and you mentioned in an earlier post $25K but now you've lowered your number to $21K.

You do not have all the answers..negotiations are still going on behind closed doors and we do not know what the final numbers are.
ASSuming does not make you right and someone else wrong.