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Old 11-11-2009, 02:46 PM
 
433 posts, read 261,187 times
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I believe it is a no brainer and it is the right of every American citizen every human but we will not even go there) to have their health and the ability to be treated by doctors etc.


What do you all feel about that?
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:16 PM
 
475 posts, read 1,498,651 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer222 View Post
I believe it is a no brainer and it is the right of every American citizen every human but we will not even go there) to have their health and the ability to be treated by doctors etc.


What do you all feel about that?
I want the same health care plan that the Congress and Senate get
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:51 PM
 
369 posts, read 1,454,806 times
Reputation: 267
Dreamer222 opines:
Quote:
I believe it is a no brainer and it is the right of every American citizen every human to have their health and the ability to be treated by doctors etc.
'Rights' in this country are things set forth for you in the US Constitution. You will be hard-pressed to find healthcare as a right mentioned there. The rights that are discussed in the Constitution are things that cannot be taken away from you by the Government or a citizen.

The problem you get into when considering healthcare as a 'right' is that, inevidably, the Government will take this ill-considered right away from you through rationing of service and care. That has happened in every single country that has tried government-run healthcare.

If, as you say, you believe that every American citzen has the right to have their health, you cannot be serious. We simply cannot prevent all disease and pestilence although we try very hard. This country does better than most in developing new drugs and procedures than do countries with single-payer systems because private capital wants to invest, innovate and make a decent return on their investment. Not the same in socialistic coutries.
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,087 posts, read 15,161,188 times
Reputation: 3740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer222 View Post
I believe it is a no brainer and it is the right of every American citizen every human but we will not even go there) to have their health and the ability to be treated by doctors etc.
Only if you plan to enslave the doctors and force them to treat everyone.
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:22 PM
 
Location: In The Outland
6,023 posts, read 14,066,267 times
Reputation: 3535
Good health is not a right or a privilege. It's a personal choice and a persons own responsibility.
I'll be damned if I'm going to have to pay for some other person's stupid past behavior. People make their beds and they have to sleep in it the way they made it.
The basic laws of nature trump any laws that our dirty greedy scum bucket politicians can cook up.

(Note, I generally refrain from name calling but I make exception for politicians)
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:25 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,766,025 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzfan View Post
Dreamer222 opines:

'Rights' in this country are things set forth for you in the US Constitution. You will be hard-pressed to find healthcare as a right mentioned there. The rights that are discussed in the Constitution are things that cannot be taken away from you by the Government or a citizen.

The problem you get into when considering healthcare as a 'right' is that, inevidably, the Government will take this ill-considered right away from you through rationing of service and care. That has happened in every single country that has tried government-run healthcare.

If, as you say, you believe that every American citzen has the right to have their health, you cannot be serious. We simply cannot prevent all disease and pestilence although we try very hard. This country does better than most in developing new drugs and procedures than do countries with single-payer systems because private capital wants to invest, innovate and make a decent return on their investment. Not the same in socialistic coutries.

The quote "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" comes to mind.

The right of healthcare is currently denied to 45 million Americans by insurance companies.

Do you know whats invested in? The 2 things more money is spent on by drug companies than anything else? Hair loss and erectile dysfunction. Real life savers.

Those "socialistic" countries have better overall health and lower cost into healthcare.

Even in "socialized " countries the drug companies are private just the way care is paid for is handle by the gov not the makers of drugs.


So apparently you have no problem with a country that denies its citizens health care based on financial status in life, or perhaps because they were or are sick, or even becaused they were the victim of a crime??
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:30 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,766,025 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
Only if you plan to enslave the doctors and force them to treat everyone.

where exactly does this idea come from? Last time I checked our medical schools were full and there was no shortage of docs.

Also current estimates say that 30% of all procedures are unnecessary and are done in part to pad the wallets of doctors.

GP's invest in labs etc and then refer patients for testing that is not necessary.


I propose to you also....Are you ok with a country that denies its citizens health care based on financial level etc etc etc??
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:33 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,167,496 times
Reputation: 32726
LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...

I think the other side is effectively saying, if you are poor, you don't deserve health care. Essentially you deserve to die. I don't know how people sleep at night.
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:36 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,766,025 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickers View Post
Good health is not a right or a privilege. It's a personal choice and a persons own responsibility.
I'll be damned if I'm going to have to pay for some other person's stupid past behavior. People make their beds and they have to sleep in it the way they made it.
The basic laws of nature trump any laws that our dirty greedy scum bucket politicians can cook up.

(Note, I generally refrain from name calling but I make exception for politicians)
First off not all health related complications can be controlled by an individuals behavior. Ever heard of genetic diseases or heredity?

Secondly in case you haven't realized people who make more money than you are paying for you as well I obviously don't know your personal life so I cannot elaborate on that.

Perhaps you are too stuck to see it but I just hope for your sake that no one in your family comes down with a major illness. Hospital bills ad up real quick and it s the main reason people file bankruptcy.

Again, not everything is attributed to a persons behavior.
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:38 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,766,025 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...

I think the other side is effectively saying, if you are poor, you don't deserve health care. Essentially you deserve to die. I don't know how people sleep at night.

basically they are, they don't care about other people. But the same people go to church on sunday and claim to be "christ like"
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