Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In light of all this history and current events, is United States a shining beacon in the world? Sadly, no.
If the USA is not, who is? China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, Nigeria?
Your opinion is laughable.
Why does the world love our Hollywood so much? How come our movies go on to be World Wide Sensations? Why does the world try to emulate what they see on the silver screen? Why is American created hip-hop and jazz a global phenum? We gave the world MJ.
Who pays for the majority of the worlds welfare (UN, IMF, World Bank, NATO). Who supplies the most peace keepers? Who supplies the world with the most catastrophe aid? Most olympic medals? Unites States 2112, Russia is next with ~1000. The largest contributor to science and leads the world in pharmaceutical research, us.
You conveniently left out success stories like: Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan, Berlin and the reunification of Germany. US funded Democratic movements in former Warsaw countries leading them into democracy (Poland, Checkoslovakia, Lithuania, Ukraine, George).
Most recently liberating and establishing Iraq as a democracy in the ME. We liberated Kuwait from Saddam occupation. Helped free Muslims in the former Yugoslavia statelets.
What's is one of the few countries of the world were you can go from poverty to rich in one generation? USA.
What is the one country you are free to pratice whatever religion you want without reprocussions? America.
We had until recently, one of least intrusive gov't in the world. And as a society, we retain (net) most of our incomes when compared to outher nations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clue
Are you even a little guilty that the tax money you paid has been spent to kill people?
Hell no. Ignoring evil makes you complicit to it. Your utopia does not exist; sometimes an a$$ kicking is in order.
US Is still the beacon of freedom it has always been. We have spilled more of our own blood in order to spread freedom to other countries than all other countries combined. Think about ending slavery, stopping Hitler, stopping Japan. How many concentration camps did we liberate in Europe? Who kept Europe from being overran by communist Soviets? Who intervened in Somalia? Who liberated Kuwait? Who stopped Milosovic? Who stopped ethnic cleansing in Bosnia? Who is dropping food and medicine from planes in Afghanistan? Whose navy showed up with supplies after the Asian tsunami? Who restored the wetlands in southern Iraq? Who pays more than anyone else into UN humanitarian projects? We did all that, and you saw it, didn't you? You saw the beacon, but you are too jealous to admit it.
The list is long and highlights our status as the "beacon of freedom". People from all around the world see the beacon and are drawn to it. The immigration figures are proof of it. You are protected here in America because of the Bill of Rights, which allows for freedom of speech, freedom to speak out against the government, and freedom of the press. If we are not the beacon of freedom, then would you be kind enough to tell us who is.
To me, the United States is really only a great country because of its overall size of its population and the amount of wealth we posess. We have a lot more social turmoil than almost all European countries. We have more racism, more hatred, and a more terrible history within our country itself. We are the meddling country that wants everyone else to conform to American ideals. By pushing this idea that we are the best country in the world, it has given most people justification for the belief that everyone should be like us.
The truth is, we are no more special than anyone else. We aren't happier, we don't have a better quality of life, and we aren't more stable than most of Western or Northern europe. Most of our US policies seem aimed at trying to solidify us as some great and caring nation. We have 40 to 60 million foreign born immigrants living in this country that is tearing it apart culturally. We also have some of the most ignorant people in the world.
And if we want to talk about WWII, we could have saved Europe a lot earlier than we did, we just chose to stay neutral. We are VERY lucky that Germany failed to defeat Britain. They could have had complete control over Europe and focused their efforts on Russia along with Japan.
We are lucky that Europe was completely destroyed during WWII, we got to finance and help rebuild Europe which is what truly made us a superpower, and paved the way for our economic success. Before WWII we were basically China, a manufacturing country with a booming population that was still heavily in the shadow of Europe.
If the USA is not, who is? China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, Nigeria?
Your opinion is laughable.
Why does the world love our Hollywood so much? How come our movies go on to be World Wide Sensations? Why does the world try to emulate what they see on the silver screen? Why is American created hip-hop and jazz a global phenum? We gave the world MJ.
Who pays for the majority of the worlds welfare (UN, IMF, World Bank, NATO). Who supplies the most peace keepers? Who supplies the world with the most catastrophe aid? Most olympic medals? Unites States 2112, Russia is next with ~1000. The largest contributor to science and leads the world in pharmaceutical research, us.
You conveniently left out success stories like: Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan, Berlin and the reunification of Germany. US funded Democratic movements in former Warsaw countries leading them into democracy (Poland, Checkoslovakia, Lithuania, Ukraine, George).
Almost all of these facts are mostly built on the power of our economy, and the size of our population. Theres a reason so many people in the world speak English these days, it is the language of business. The day the Chinese economy overtakes ours, everyone will start speaking Chinese. And there will be more emulation of Chinese culture because it will end up dominating our airwaves.
Quote:
Most recently liberating and establishing Iraq as a democracy in the ME. We liberated Kuwait from Saddam occupation. Helped free Muslims in the former Yugoslavia statelets.
Do you think Iraq is some kind of success story? Do you think Afghanistan is a success story? There have been somewhere between 200,000 and 1 million deaths caused by the War on Terror. Last time I looked, Iraq is still a craphole. And Bosnia? You do know the country was basically split in two after the war, and now the area that is like 99% populated by Serbs(Republika Sbrska) is wanting to become independent but is being blocked by the international community. And the part that is mostly ethnic Croatians is also wanting to break off. It would be far better off if the international community(especially the USA) stopped trying to impose its will on other countries.
Quote:
What's is one of the few countries of the world were you can go from poverty to rich in one generation? USA.
There are many countries in Europe where you could replicate this also. While I agree it is still easier to do in this country. I don't put nearly as much value on wealth as I do relative happiness and stability of a country. Which in the happy and stable department, we severely lack.
Quote:
What is the one country you are free to pratice whatever religion you want without reprocussions? America.
Almost all of Western Europe. Muslims have been moving to Europe in droves, and many believe Islam will overtake Christianity as the largest religion in Europe in the future.
Quote:
We had until recently, one of least intrusive gov't in the world. And as a society, we retain (net) most of our incomes when compared to outher nations.
Hell no. Ignoring evil makes you complicit to it. Your utopia does not exist; sometimes an a$$ kicking is in order.
I think your opinion of what makes evil is a little lacking. I feel like there is massive amounts of evil being done by Americans but with the idea that they are actually doing good. In "liberating" Iraq, we might kill millions. In "liberating" Vietnam, we killed around 3 million.
Sounds like we did the honorable thing to me. Aren't you proud?
We are the easiest people to scapegoat. We are a large country bordered by two other countries that don't do anything on the world stage, and we are vastly separated from Europe.
When Euros want to blame someone, they immediately blame us, because if they blame another country in Europe, someone from that country might be standing there, and kick their ass.
We have spilled more of our own blood in order to spread freedom to other countries than all other countries combined.
Incorrect. Please tell these countries that, those who know the history of US involvement will disagree with you: Afghanistan, Argentina, China, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Chile, Guatemala, Philippines, El Salvador, Brazil, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Zaire, British Guinea, Honduras, Panama.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Think about ending slavery, stopping Hitler, stopping Japan. How many concentration camps did we liberate in Europe? Who kept Europe from being overran by communist Soviets? Who intervened in Somalia? Who liberated Kuwait? Who stopped Milosovic? Who stopped ethnic cleansing in Bosnia? Who is dropping food and medicine from planes in Afghanistan?
Whose navy showed up with supplies after the Asian tsunami? Who restored the wetlands in southern Iraq? Who pays more than anyone else into UN humanitarian projects? We did all that, and you saw it, didn't you? You saw the beacon, but you are too jealous to admit it.
I saw those, and you're covering up details and the real intentions.
The intervention of Somalia was to establish regional hegemony.
Kuwait was mainly US's fault, the most advance biological and chemical weapon in the region at that time was because of US funding.
There were plenty of navy showing up for the Asian tsunami, US is not special in this case. The rest is covered below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
People from all around the world see the beacon and are drawn to it. The immigration figures are proof of it.
Incorrect, I've already explained this. People travel for perceived economic opportunities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob
It used to be. I think it is generally thought that the last 8yrs put a huge damper on that light.
No, every consecutive illegal foreign intervention since 1946 put a huge damper on that light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
If the USA is not, who is? China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, Nigeria?
The world doesn't need a shining beacon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
Why does the world love our Hollywood so much? How come our movies go on to be World Wide Sensations? Why does the world try to emulate what they see on the silver screen? Why is American created hip-hop and jazz a global phenum? We gave the world MJ.
The largest empire currently and the most media spending will obviously get you more audience. It's also a fallacy to conclude large audience means quality, recent top seller Twilight New Moon isn't what most adult would call quality entertainment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
Who pays for the majority of the worlds welfare (UN, IMF, World Bank, NATO).
And IMF, World Bank, and NATO served US very well. They are the extensive arm of US hegemony worldwide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
Who supplies the most peace keepers? Who supplies the world with the most catastrophe aid? Most olympic medals? Unites States 2112, Russia is next with ~1000.
Olympic medal is an invalid measure, if US send 1000+ athletes at every Olympic game while Iceland sends 10, how fair a measure is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
The largest contributor to science and leads the world in pharmaceutical research, us.
Germany had the most advance technology during WWII, China had the most advance technology during the Middle Ages. Europe had the most advance technology during the industrial revolution. It doesn't make those places exceptional.
Pharmaceutical research has been less than stellar, and it's convenient for you to forget the Europeans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
You conveniently left out success stories like: Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan, Berlin and the reunification of Germany. US funded Democratic movements in former Warsaw countries leading them into democracy (Poland, Checkoslovakia, Lithuania, Ukraine, George).
Taiwan was handed to dictator Chiang Kai Shek, his goons murdered 20,000 of the original Taiwanese islanders with US support.
Japan was a de facto state under US, Japan only had one party in power for the past 50 years until recently. And for the bulk of that time, US supported that single party. Is it really democracy when you can only vote for one party? Of course not.
Whatever your point is, "success" stories are excuse to comb over atrocities. You couldn't argue to the judge that you should go free for a murder conviction simply because you saved a little kid from being hit by a bus, you still have to be tried for your crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
Most recently liberating and establishing Iraq as a democracy in the ME. We liberated Kuwait from Saddam occupation.
The mess with Iraq wouldn't have happened if US didn't support Saddam Hussein to power. Iraq II wasn't a liberation campaign, it was a pre-emptive war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
Helped free Muslims in the former Yugoslavia statelets.
Former Yugoslavian mess was partly the result of freedom of speech and democracy. Ethnic hatred incensed by freedom of speech, democracy gave rise to demagogues. Josef Tito kept the Yugoslavia because he banned nationalism and ethnic racism, it's no surprise few years after he died and the implementation of democracy and freedom of speech, that region went to hell. When the civil war was brewing, the top security council members (UK, Russia, France, and USA) supplied weapons for them to fight each other to death. Freedom also means the freedom to starve, rape, kill, and die, former Yugoslavia was a stellar example of that, but surely you like to say we "helped free Muslims", it allows us to sleep better at night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
What's is one of the few countries of the world were you can go from poverty to rich in one generation? USA.
What is the one country you are free to pratice whatever religion you want without reprocussions? America.
You can do the same in Canada, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Japan, France, Germany, Netherland, Sweden, and Norway. US is not special in this regards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
We had until recently, one of least intrusive gov't in the world.
Incorrect. Least intrusive is open to debate, but I'm sure Haiti, Somalia, Afghanistan, Chad, Namibia, etc are much more libertarian than US is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
And as a society, we retain (net) most of our incomes when compared to outher nations.
Incorrect, the lowest tax rate is in the gulf states, Qatar, Bahrain, and UAE. I can also argue countries without usury such as Libya and Iran means credit card companies won't hold you hostage to 40% interest rates. Hell, even China has a lower tax rate than US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo
Hell no. Ignoring evil makes you complicit to it. Your utopia does not exist; sometimes an a$$ kicking is in order.
What evil? The real evil was ignored (Rwanda, Sudan, Bangladesh, Khmer), we chased imaginary evil boogeyman while supplying the real evil men (Mobutu, Trujillo, Saddam Hussein, Fuentes, Batista, Noriega, Videla, Somoza, Banzer, Stroessner, Sadat, Mubarak).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
The first step to recovery, is realizing you have a problem.
The greatest damage to USA is its citizens thinking they are the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
Sounds like we did the honorable thing to me.
There's no honor for getting involved in places that poses no threat to US. US foreign policy is amoral. Morality does not apply to US foreign policy or the retribution of said foreign policy.
Since 1946, US foreign policy resulted in the following:
1. 40+ attempts (successful and failed) to overthrow legitimate governments*
2. 30 populist movements against dictators supported by US,
3. 20+ assassinations
4. Millions of dead and millions suffered under the aid of US bombs, planes, guns, and money. All paid for by US taxpayers.
*These legitimate governments included those who are democratically elected leaders trying to bring their people out of poverty. The puppet replacement are military officers trained by US/CIA in torture, espionage, and other tactics that would be deemed despicable.
Examples.
Iran, Mohammed Mossadegh, replaced by Reza Pahlavi.
Indonesia, Sukarno assassinated and replaced by Suharto.
Chile, Salvador Allende replaced by Pinochet.
Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz replaced by Castillo Armas.
The former of each example are democratically elected leaders trying to bring their countrymen out of poverty. The latter are US-backed dictators who went on to torture and kill their own people. Suharto's reign resulted in 500,000 death, supported by US. Pinochet had concentration camps, supported by US.
More examples of ruthless dictators supported by US in money and guns:
All of this was done under the mythical euphemism of bringing "democracy, freedom, and liberty".
In light of all this history and current events, is United States a shining beacon in the world? Sadly, no.
Why do you ask a question that you've already got a set answer for??
And for the record......when ever some emergency goes down anywhere on the globe, who do they ask for first? Tsunamis, earthquakes, floods....what country do they ALWAYS want involved in helping with relief??
What country are foreigners always trying to sneak in to?? HINT: It ain't Russia or China.
When folks in Canada need a cancer removed NOW, but can't get the surgery done for 3 to 6 months because of socialized medicine, where do they fly to???
You know the answers.....
Your question was faulty to begin with. America is not perfect. No country is. But is it still a beacon to those living under oppression and poverty? You betcha, as Palin would say....
I am not from the USA and do not live in your country. However, have visited the USA several times.
I think I can give you some insight as to why many people do not like the USA.
Attention: This is what most people who live here think about the US, not necessary what I think.
What people do not like about the US:
- The former president and his "You're either with us or against us"-mentality
- Like the OP mentioned the support of dictators and murderers in the past
- American news media basically only covers whatevers happens in the USA and therefore some Americans are pretty clueless what is going on in the world (I have seen and read american media)
- The "We are the Number One" mentality which btw is very outdated since Europe has caught up in wealth and living standards
- The crazy religious fanatics
- The lack of culture ( Paris Hilton is more famous than people with real talent)
- sounds mean, but the obesity of american people is quite disgusting ( you are nr.1 in the world when it comes to obesity)
- Some pay more attention to rodeo clowns like Glenn Beck than to truely intelligent people
- The disgusting frat boys culture
etc.
I think the USA is a beautiful country btw
I was born and raised American and as such I am going to exercise my freedom of speech...
All of the observations the european is making are 100% true. I think it took a bit of guts to come here and say that and its important that we understand exactly how we are seen. Why close your eyes and stick your head in the sand just because its unpleasant?
Any American that wants to sputter nasty remarks about Europeans just because they tell it like it is, is simply incapable of handling constructive criticism.
The first step in making positive change is to acknowledge flaws even if its hurtful.
To have Paris Hilton as a national celebrity and media sensation is a complete embarrasment but true!! And to use Hollywood as some great contribution to the world is just as pathetic. The world could do without our movies and survive just fine.
I have heard and seen all the stories that the OP is bringing up and find it seriously disturbing that people will defend those type of actions rather than understand it was wrong and is what has caused anti-american sentiment.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. 
