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Old 01-22-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,874 posts, read 26,521,399 times
Reputation: 25773

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Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
...But if the federal government wants to make a law regarding guns and enforce it themselves, then it would override a state law.
As of now, that's what has been happening. The federal government has asserted justification of federal gun laws via the interstate commerce clause. There are bills in several states that limit guns manufactured and kept within one state (intrastate) as being off limits to federal gun laws. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

BTW, this has turned into an interesting (though perhaps off topic) thread, good education.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,007 posts, read 15,426,799 times
Reputation: 2463
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I suggest you read the Constitution. Amendments 9 and 10 say:

9: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

10: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."


Okay, so now we need to look at what powers the federal government has, and the limitations on states:

"Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Section 9 - Limits on Congress
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
(No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.)
No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.
Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."



So, to sum up, the feds may exercise those powers specifically given to them, and anything else is reserved to the states. The feds actually have very limited powers. The feds can't simply do whatever they want.

Oh my God.

I understand the Constitution, obviously better than you do.

You apparently don't understand how broadly interpreted those federal powers are. Do you understand how broad Interstate Commerce is?

Also of note, the Constitution is not the law. It does not make the law, the government does. The Constitution merely provides a framework for laws to be made.





Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Furthermore, various court decisions have upheld the right to resist unlawful exercise of authority, notably, the John Bad Elk case:

FindLaw | Cases and Codes


Federal law even states any unlawful act by any officer of the law, done under color of the law, is a felony. The Civil Rights Act of 1871:

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed

This last law's civil lawsuit provisions is the one that is likely to be used against the ATF and the local police in Texas.
What are you talking about? Of course it's been upheld that violating federal law is a felony. Are you just trying to give your post the illusion of knowledge and competency?





Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
By the way, the notion of FEMA concentration camps is not entirely as absurd as it sounds. FEMA actually has contracts to construct such camps in place: FOXNews.com - Critics Fear Emergency Centers Could Be Used for Immigration Round-Ups - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

I read the contract a few years ago. It was quite broad in its terms.

Then there is REX 84, which in fact called for rounding people up, putting them in camps, suspending the Constitution, allowing FEMA to run the country, etc.: FEMA And REX 84 (http://uweb.txstate.edu/%7Elf14/conspire/rex84.html - broken link)

Rex 84 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do not fail to research COINTELPRO either.

You can think whatever you want of these facts, but it would be foolish to denounce people who know of them as merely paranoia.

FEMA concentration camps? COINTELPRO?

Whatever tiny shred of credibility you might possibly have had just went out the window.

Last edited by Yac; 02-23-2010 at 07:35 AM..
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,007 posts, read 15,426,799 times
Reputation: 2463
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Sheriff Mack:

Can the county sheriff save the Constitution? Former Arizona Sheriff Richard Mack, who became front-page news when he filed a suit challenging the constitutionality of the Brady Bill, is calling on sheriffs to reclaim lost freedoms. - Free Online Lib

Note that article also points out Sheriff Nixon of Montana, and, most interesting, Nye County Sheriff DeMeo:

Nevada Live Stock Association (http://www.nevadalivestock.org/04Aug17.htm - broken link)

There are other examples and if you research this subject you will find them yourself.
If you'll look back, I already mentioned that.

This had nothing to do with the exercise of a Sheriff's powers or not. It had to do with Congress trying to force the states to enforce federal law. They can't do that. A retarded monkey could have brought the suit and it wouldn't have made any difference.





Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Only where the Constitution authorizes it. Federal Statutes are not the highest law in this country, the Constitution is.
The Constitution is not the law. It is a framework for the law, and open to interpretation. Federal statutes do trump state statutes, unless it is a clear-cut case of violation of the 10th Amendment.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: SE Florida
9,367 posts, read 25,217,262 times
Reputation: 9454
So he didn't want to issue the flyer below:

Boedeker’s flier issued under government coercion and the demand of the event center building lease holder states:

“At the direction of the Austin Police Department and the The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms anyone selling a firearm at this show location will be asked to comply with the following: 1. Any person selling a personal firearm must go through a licensed FFL Dealer in the show to transfer the firearm to the new owner. 2. Selling of Firearms in the parking lot will not be permitted. Thank you for your cooperation!â€

From the site referenced:

Become aware of ATF activity in your state and the complicity of local law enforcement. Only through awareness and political action can we save our Constitution and Second Amendment from the claws of the New World Order and its long-stated goal to disarm the public and impose a globalist dictatorship. They fear an armed and informed public. Make sure they remain afraid.

Why would anyone be opposed to issuing a notice stating that background checks are required by private sellers and that firearms can't be sold in the parking lot?
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,007 posts, read 15,426,799 times
Reputation: 2463
Quote:
Originally Posted by hortysir View Post
That's really weird....
Because when I asked my representative Tom Rooney why he didn't vote for it, that's the reason he told me.
Congressman Rooney is an ex Army Captain and was an instructor at West Point in Constitutional Law, so pardon me if I tend to believe him over you
This makes no sense.

Your Congressman didn't vote for it because of a personal belief.

The federal government can (and does) make laws all the time that override state laws in regards to firearms.

Quote:
There was recently a bill introduced that would have required states to recognize other states' CWPs.
It was defeated specifically because of the 10th amendment not granting the federal gub'ment authority over state gun laws.
I'll say it again for the slow ones...the federal government cannot compel states to enforce federal law. That would be why this bill wouldn't work, not because a federal law overruled a state law.

The government can't pass a law requiring something like that. It can, however, pass a law in regards to licensing requirements that supersede state laws.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,793 posts, read 6,124,725 times
Reputation: 1613
"sniff - sniff" I smell a lawsuit brewing.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Lubbock, Texas
331 posts, read 498,876 times
Reputation: 125
Back to the topic at hand, isn't the right to assemble peacefully protected by another amendment?

This is B.S. I really hope the liberals get what they deserve REALLY soon. I really smell the communism train rolling into town.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:26 AM
 
8,762 posts, read 11,576,037 times
Reputation: 3398
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmac112 View Post
Back to the topic at hand, isn't the right to assemble peacefully protected by another amendment?

This is B.S. I really hope the liberals get what they deserve REALLY soon. I really smell the communism train rolling into town.
Mmmmm. I love how you express your worst wishes for the liberals and call then names and then copy my status. Imitation is flattery. Can't think of anything original, huh?

You are very "prolife" and very "pro christ". Your posts are not all that loving or Pro Christ if you don't mind me saying.

Especially in your other post where you call liberals idiots. Would Christ want that?
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Florida
1,313 posts, read 1,551,592 times
Reputation: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmac112 View Post
Back to the topic at hand, isn't the right to assemble peacefully protected by another amendment?

This is B.S. I really hope the liberals get what they deserve REALLY soon. I really smell the communism train rolling into town.
Freedom of peaceful assembly?
Don't think that would apply here.

Getmeoutofhere, I think we fundamentally agree but are presenting our arguements differently.
Truce?
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,793 posts, read 6,124,725 times
Reputation: 1613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theliberalvoice View Post
Mmmmm. I love how you express your worst wishes for the liberals and call then names and then copy my status. Imitation is flattery. Can't think of anything original, huh?

You are very "prolife" and very "pro christ". Your posts are not all that loving or Pro Christ if you don't mind me saying.

Especially in your other post where you call liberals idiots. Would Christ want that?
From the mouth of an abortion advocate, folks.
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