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So of course other programs need to be introduced. Abstinence education should be part of sex-ed, not instead of, that is the point PP is trying to make. Abtinence is one of the choices pro-choice supports, and PP endorses. After all these years people still don't get what CHOICE really means.
You quote two other sources which are also from advocacy groups without bothering to research them either.
Ok, that may be fine with you, but I prefer to know what I'm reading, why it's out there in front of me and who put it there.
Always be careful to keep an open mind to prevent being manipulated by accepting "data" without question because it fits your preconceptions.
The 2nd post on this thread suggested that access to abortion might be a factor, and not one person in the next 6 pages followed up on that. Instead it was religion, education, Southern culture that were the problems. Hello?
Teenagers have sex. Teenagers in rural areas have a harder time getting contraceptives (the outlets where they are available are fewer, and it's much harder to maintain anonymity), so they may actually engage in riskier sex behavior. Then, when a pregnancy occurs, how are you going to get an abortion? Where's the nearest abortion clinic? What's the waiting period? How are you going to pay for it?
You quote two other sources which are also from advocacy groups without bothering to research them either.
Ok, that may be fine with you, but I prefer to know what I'm reading, why it's out there in front of me and who put it there.
Always be careful to keep an open mind to prevent being manipulated by accepting "data" without question because it fits your preconceptions.
Sorry I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but do care deeply about this issue. How do you know I did not research, or perhaps know about the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy and the Department of Health and Human Services? You are making huge assumptions about the intellect and knowledge of posters here. Perhaps it is you who should be careful about keeping an open mind. And I'd add I have no preconceptions, but value the data as it enables us to move forward and address this epidemic, rather than grab the tin-foil hat and question the results of all studies, ultimately doing nothing to address the problem.
Not speaking for all of us Yankees up here in frozen New Hampshire, but just how do you folks think we stay warm during the endless winter? Sharing a bed is how. We apparently are aware that teens have sex just like they always have and we tell our kids how to stay safe and not pregnant. I guess we have longer memories and remember what we were doing when we were teens. At least I do.
I wonder why the cultures that stress chastity and virgin marriage seem to have the highest out of marriage pregnancies. I also wonder if pregnancy is being used as a punishment for girls that have unauthorized sex but not for the guys involved.
Sorry I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but do care deeply about this issue. How do you know I did not research, or perhaps know about the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy and the Department of Health and Human Services? You are making huge assumptions about the intellect and knowledge of posters here. Perhaps it is you who should be careful about keeping an open mind. And I'd add I have no preconceptions, but value the data as it enables us to move forward and address this epidemic, rather than grab the tin-foil hat and question the results of all studies, ultimately doing nothing to address the problem.
I'm not a conspiracist either, but I'm aware of how public opinion is shaped and manipulated. What I highlighted about the advocacy group linked in the OP is nothing new as we've seen this same process repeated thousands of times on thousands of different issues. What do you think drives Congress to act? Public opinion. And what drives public opinion? Too often, it's tainted data from sources which have an agenda.
On subjects as diverse as smoking, health, automobile safety, the environment, global warming, defense issues, politics, religion and more, we're overwhelmed with "studies" and "research" too often deliberately crafted to yield a specified result which are then released to the media for our consumption. That's not a conspiracy, it's just the way things are done and when, or if, we are not aware of what's going on, we can very easily find ourselves believing an untruth and advocating for some remedy to a "problem" which does not really exist.
I'm not saying all research is invalid, but I am saying that all research should be approached with great wariness until you're satisfied that it is genuine and not outcome based. That takes time and effort to dig out and most people will not take the time to do so. They'll just accept it at face value. That's not a reflection upon their intelligence, just their awareness. Unfortunately, that makes a good many of our citizens an easy mark for those who advocate an issue for a purpose, and that purpose is ALWAYS for more money or power.
But, you're right that I don't know how much you already know about those advocacy groups you linked to. I apologize for my presumptive comments. If you're satisfied with them, that's alright with me, but please allow me to make up my own mind too.
As for the rise in teen pregnacies? Maybe there really is; maybe their isn't. I'd have to see what data was collected, when, how and by whom before accepting what's presented by anyone.
But, even if the data turns out to be completely valid, it begs the question of just why this is an issue and why it requires some "action" to correct, action usually coming in the form of government involvement. We seem to have become so use to thinking in terms of government action to solve every "issue" that we no longer even question why that's a good idea or even if the "issue" is really important.
Location: Partisanship Is An Intellectual/Emotional Handicap
1,851 posts, read 2,156,516 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
The 2nd post on this thread suggested that access to abortion might be a factor, and not one person in the next 6 pages followed up on that. Instead it was religion, education, Southern culture that were the problems. Hello?
Teenagers have sex. Teenagers in rural areas have a harder time getting contraceptives (the outlets where they are available are fewer, and it's much harder to maintain anonymity), so they may actually engage in riskier sex behavior. Then, when a pregnancy occurs, how are you going to get an abortion? Where's the nearest abortion clinic? What's the waiting period? How are you going to pay for it?
Access is a darn good answer, brubaker!
Of course it is!!! Education and Access is what it's all about.
Abstinence Only was a concept and "solution " championed by the Religious loonies. And not just Christians. Abstinence Only is a narrow-minded, mindless concept which completely ignores the reality of human behavior and the reality of people's lives/existence.
Abstinence should always be a concept included in the education. But never should it be used as an all encompassing, brickwall "solution". Simply because it is NOT a solution. It's only one of several options.
I'm not a conspiracist either, but I'm aware of how public opinion is shaped and manipulated. What I highlighted about the advocacy group linked in the OP is nothing new as we've seen this same process repeated thousands of times on thousands of different issues. What do you think drives Congress to act? Public opinion. And what drives public opinion? Too often, it's tainted data from sources which have an agenda.
On subjects as diverse as smoking, health, automobile safety, the environment, global warming, defense issues, politics, religion and more, we're overwhelmed with "studies" and "research" too often deliberately crafted to yield a specified result which are then released to the media for our consumption. That's not a conspiracy, it's just the way things are done and when, or if, we are not aware of what's going on, we can very easily find ourselves believing an untruth and advocating for some remedy to a "problem" which does not really exist.
I'm not saying all research is invalid, but I am saying that all research should be approached with great wariness until you're satisfied that it is genuine and not outcome based. That takes time and effort to dig out and most people will not take the time to do so. They'll just accept it at face value. That's not a reflection upon their intelligence, just their awareness. Unfortunately, that makes a good many of our citizens an easy mark for those who advocate an issue for a purpose, and that purpose is ALWAYS for more money or power.
But, you're right that I don't know how much you already know about those advocacy groups you linked to. I apologize for my presumptive comments. If you're satisfied with them, that's alright with me, but please allow me to make up my own mind too.
As for the rise in teen pregnacies? Maybe there really is; maybe their isn't. I'd have to see what data was collected, when, how and by whom before accepting what's presented by anyone.
But, even if the data turns out to be completely valid, it begs the question of just why this is an issue and why it requires some "action" to correct, action usually coming in the form of government involvement. We seem to have become so use to thinking in terms of government action to solve every "issue" that we no longer even question why that's a good idea or even if the "issue" is really important.
I do understand your suspicion of research data, BUT all of the data I have seen from a variety of sources points to alarmingly high teen pregnancy rates in the US, surely they are not all wrong or heavily biased. Why are the results an issue? Was that a serious question, hopefully not.
The reason this is a valid concern now is that sex-ed is taught in schools to a degree, not the way I would have it taught, but none the less it is taught. Birth control is available, so why are pregnancy rates so high? I suspect a big part of the problem is that parents either don't talk to their kids because they don't know what to say, or they are relatively ignorant of the subject themselves. That is why the results are so important because yes sex-ed is taught, organizations such as PP are available, but parental input is vital, and realistic parental input. Teaching kids about abstinence is great, but they need to know the other stuff too. They are walking hormones, and they are going to have sex, and relying on someone else to teach your kids about sex, or not teaching them anything at all and crossing you fingers and hoping for the best is obviously not working.
Last edited by Zimbochick; 01-27-2010 at 10:08 AM..
Sex education and access to birth control/ pregnancy prevention, worked.
When you either refuse to give teenagers access to true sex education and pregnancy prevention; based on some delusional, looney, unrealistic religious platform of "abstinence"......... Kids ....teenagers ....will get preganant.
I said it years ago and knew this would happen. It's common sense and Human Behavior 101.
Only the lunatic religious Nazis don't get it.
I have a complex opinion on the subject of abortion that varies and I don't feel like getting into right now, but let me just say that if anything, the pro-choice movement of Planned Parenthood and the side in favor of scientific intervention in nature's cycles is more tied to National Socialism than those against. The founder of PP, Margaret Sanger, was a supporter of eugenics, and Adolf Hitler was an outspoken fan of her work. Sanger herself even outright said that birth control could be forcibly implemented in urban communities and used to cut minority populations in half.
Location: Partisanship Is An Intellectual/Emotional Handicap
1,851 posts, read 2,156,516 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater
I have a complex opinion on the subject of abortion that varies and I don't feel like getting into right now, but let me just say that if anything, the pro-choice movement of Planned Parenthood and the side in favor of scientific intervention in nature's cycles is more tied to National Socialism than those against. The founder of PP, Margaret Sanger, was a supporter of eugenics, and Adolf Hitler was an outspoken fan of her work. Sanger herself even outright said that birth control could be forcibly implemented in urban communities and used to cut minority populations in half.
Realistically, my intitial first post in this thread was not about abortion.
There are other forms of birth control and prevention that are significant stepping stones to avoiding abortion, all together. Condoms are pretty good way to start. Access to education and prevention is the key.
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