Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-24-2010, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Neither here nor there
14,810 posts, read 16,209,541 times
Reputation: 33001

Advertisements

Here is a link to the bill: http://le.utah.gov/~2010/bills/hbillint/hb0012.htm

If anyone can find anything in this bill that redefines "miscarriage" as an illegal procedure, please post the appropriate phrasing.

The only reference to "miscarriage" I found was a striking of that word in the original bill.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-25-2010, 12:26 AM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,222,200 times
Reputation: 35014
I tried to read the bill but got lost in the 'legaleze'. I really don't know WHAT it says or how it can be applied.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2010, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,259 posts, read 64,375,553 times
Reputation: 73937
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobE View Post
The ACLU has already filed objections to this law, but this is Utah, where crazy Republicans roam free. It now awaits the governor's signature.
Please don't confuse crazy mormons with republicans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2010, 01:02 AM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,948,874 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Please don't confuse crazy mormons with republicans.
Mormons are some of the nicest people I have ever met.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2010, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,259 posts, read 64,375,553 times
Reputation: 73937
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
Mormons are some of the nicest people I have ever met.
Me, too. But we're talking about the crazy ones.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2010, 01:40 AM
 
Location: North Las Vegas
1,125 posts, read 1,591,232 times
Reputation: 929
Love how they pick and choose which words to use in their stories. Here is the actual wording:

199 (iii) the intentional causing or attempted causing of a miscarriage through a medical
200 procedure carried out by a physician or through a substance used under the direction of a
201 physician.

While you might disagree with the state making abortion illegal, you can not argue that a natural miscarriage will land you in jail based on the wording of the law.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2010, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Blackwater Park
172 posts, read 298,344 times
Reputation: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunucu Beach View Post
Here is a link to the bill: http://le.utah.gov/~2010/bills/hbillint/hb0012.htm

If anyone can find anything in this bill that redefines "miscarriage" as an illegal procedure, please post the appropriate phrasing.

The only reference to "miscarriage" I found was a striking of that word in the original bill.
Let me gives this a try.

It doesn't necessarily define all miscarriages as being illegal. What it says is:
Quote:
48 (1) (a) A person commits criminal homicide if [he] the person intentionally,
49 knowingly, recklessly, with criminal negligence, or acting with a mental state otherwise
50 specified in the statute defining the offense, causes the death of another human being, including
51 an unborn child at any stage of its development.
The word reckless is where people are finding problems with the bill. Many people are thinking that if, for example, a pregnant woman isn't wearing a seat belt and an accident causes a miscarriage that she will be charged with criminal homicide for being reckless with criminal negligence (willfully blind to seat belt laws).

Seems like a poorly written bill to me. I doubt anyone intended it to work this way, at least I hope no one did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2010, 01:54 AM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,948,874 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Me, too. But we're talking about the crazy ones.
But I think this thread and the progressive lefty blogs cited totally misrepresent the intention of the bill. The Salt Lake Tribune says the law is to protect from intentional miscarriages. There was a high profile national thing/incident were a woman born an infant and performed no help and allowed it to sufficate and die. She wasn't charged and can't be charged, no legislation. And Our Constitution promises us the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. She should be charged. This law addresses that, intentional miscarriages not arbortions.

House OKs bill to criminalize intentional miscarriages - Salt Lake Tribune

Last edited by mossomo; 02-25-2010 at 02:07 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2010, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Blackwater Park
172 posts, read 298,344 times
Reputation: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymberwulf View Post
Love how they pick and choose which words to use in their stories. Here is the actual wording:

199 (iii) the intentional causing or attempted causing of a miscarriage through a medical
200 procedure carried out by a physician or through a substance used under the direction of a
201 physician.

While you might disagree with the state making abortion illegal, you can not argue that a natural miscarriage will land you in jail based on the wording of the law.
You're taking that out of context. That is one of the definitions of abortion in the law. That is legal in this bill (76-5-201.52-53). The point being made by the definition is that a physician guided abortion is not criminal homicide.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2010, 03:40 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,224,629 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
I tried to read the bill but got lost in the 'legaleze'. I really don't know WHAT it says or how it can be applied.
Utah to Prosecute Women for "Intentional" or "Reckless" Miscarriages

Thursday February 25, 2010
In a development worthy of note, it seems that the state of Utah has decided to criminalize some miscarriages. According to a report in The Salt Lake Tribune, the bill was intended to create a law under which people could be prosecuted for trying to end their pregnancies without medical supervision, such as a recent case in which teenager paid a man to beat her in the hopes that the beating would cause her to lose her baby. Unfortunately, the language chosen for the bill was that women could be prosecuted for an "intentional, knowing, or reckless act" that led to a pregnancy's termination. Legal abortions

Utah to Prosecute Women for "Intentional" or "Reckless" Miscarriages

For years pro abortionist have said if you make abortion illegal people will do it illegal.
this law has not stopped abortions they just ask people to do it legally rather than risk themselves. So Utah want to make it illegal for a woman to have herself beat up to force a miscarriage when she could get an abortion safely
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top