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BTW - would someone tell me . . . if we are in such urgent need for that heinous 2700 pp healthcare insurance mandate bill . . . why has all the legislation put an effective date of 2013 or 2014 on it?
Excellent question, posed by various posters. I haven't seen a good answer yet, probably because there isn't one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank
Good point Ani.....I laughed when Obama said we can't wait another year, we can't start over, we need reform NOW.
Psst....Mr. President....the benefits and protections offered in the plan wouldn't be implemented for YEARS. I think we have a bit of time to pass something that will have bipartisan support of Congress and even more importantly....the American people!! And, it could be implemented much sooner.
I agree with that completely. This is being pushed through for Obama's sake (he has to have something to crow about), and not so much for the people (they're just the excuse).
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen
The Federal Government is NOT the cause of Medicare Fraud.
Greedy, dishonest health care providers who are committing Medicare fraud should be convicted. They are the ones who are stealing taxpayer money and who are abusing the system.
Do you think that if there weren't so many players in the field and if the Federal Government had more of an interest in the situation that they might be able to better target these abuses? I do.
The government may not be the cause of the fraud, but the ineptness and sheer size of government contributes to it. The government can't run anything efficiently and there's nothing to indicate that it would be able to eliminate the fraud. Furthermore, government regulations add to the cost of durable medical equipment, in some cases even tripling what the actual cost could be. It's the bureaucracy that just can't get itself out of the way --- and it is growing! Thousands of fedral government jobs were just added (again).
Anybody who believes Obamacare will run smoothly and beneficially for all the citizens is going to be disappointed they ever supported the current plan.
Not true...some of the things in the bill will go into effect this year. Not soon enough for the good of the country. It has been a long time coming , if not now , then when ? Why delay , just because you do not like Dems. ? , or Obama ? Most people do want health care reform , its been cused and discussed for a year now...its time to pass the Bill. !
I have no clue what provision you are talking about b/c the bills that have been produced by both the Senate and House do not go into effect, as written, until 2013 and 2014.
There are other regs affecting entitlements, such as Medicare, that have been enacted but they are not part of this bill.
The Obama Admin has, and will continue, to shed light on what is actually in the Bill. They will continue to do that, more and more Americans will recognize the false GOP statements, as such. If the Dems have 216 votes in the House, they will move it forward. The Senate Repubs could slow the Reconciliation of the changes to the Senate Bill, by adding multiple amendments, perhaps continuing to do that until Nov. I don't think they would take it to that extreme, taking that tact, would likely backfire. Reaffirming their title as the Party of No, will not likely do them well with Independents.
I would rather see a uniform Health Care for all people in the US. Just because you live across a state line , should you have less access to affordable health care ?... I think not. We are a republic yes , but we are also ..These United States , united together for common cause and the welfare of the people. We fight all the wars, federally , we fund 90 per cent of the highways federally...why not health care...just reduce Social security age, that would be a good start, if you can not agree with a single payer system.
There are many things we could do immediately and that people want that would help us all out with healthcare costs.
But it doesn't take 2700 pp of additional pork and regs to make that happen.
There are things in these bills that are past ridiculous - and I am not regurgitating what other folks have written or what the media has fed to the public. I have read the legislation (everything I could get my hands on)
I have been writing about this since June of 2009 when the Kennedy bill came out of committee. No one believed me then but the same provisions I was wringing my hands over are still in the legislation.
For ex - millions spent on commercials in spanish to tell kids to brush their teeth.
This legislation is a trainwreck b/c it has all sorts of ridiculous money-wasting crap in it that has NOTHING TO DO with lowering the cost of healthcare or with making healthcare more accessible.
Let me make this clear: this legislation AMENDS existing legislation. That this Administration has come up with 2700 pp of pork in order to AMEND an existing bill is unfathomable.
And to think the President wants it rushed through . . . it should make folks want to march in the streets! This bill is not healthcare reform!
The Obama Admin has, and will continue, to shed light on what is actually in the Bill. They will continue to do that, more and more Americans will recognize the false GOP statements, as such. If the Dems have 216 votes in the House, they will move it forward. The Senate Repubs could slow the Reconciliation of the changes to the Senate Bill, by adding multiple amendments, perhaps continuing to do that until Nov. I don't think they would take it to that extreme, taking that tact, would likely backfire. Reaffirming their title as the Party of No, will not likely do them well with Independents.
I am sorry, Florida Bob. If you truly believe that the "spin" the White House is dribbling out to the public represents where BILLIONS of dollars is going to be spent in this legislation, you are going to be sadly disappointed.
First of all, it won't cover "all Americans!" How about that? And it does nothing to change who picks up the cost for illegal immigrants who end up in the Emergency Rooms across this country. So that expense continues!
Did you know that there are billions of dollars set aside for healthcare education? But you have to be a minority to get it? How do you like that provision? Now you explain to me why COLLEGE TUITION MONEY is in this healthcare bill? And why is it only available to CERTAIN PEOPLE? My son is getting a degree in healthcare, but you mean to tell me my tax dollars will pay for somebody else's kid to get the same degree - but NOT MY SON? But moreover - why the hell would you put laws in place in a supposed HEALTHCARE REFORM BILL that deal with STUDENT TUITION??
I could go on and on but I am sure all I will hear is "oh well, you don't really know what is in that bill, b/c it really isn't a bill yet . . . no one knows," blah blah blah.
To you who wish to take that approach, then you tell me - WHAT ON THIS GOD'S GREEN EARTH IS IN THOSE 2700 pages?
The whole "NEW DEAL" under FDR did not total 2700 pages!!!
I am sorry, Florida Bob. If you truly believe that the "spin" the White House is dribbling out to the public represents where BILLIONS of dollars is going to be spent in this legislation, you are going to be sadly disappointed.
First of all, it won't cover "all Americans!" How about that? And it does nothing to change who picks up the cost for illegal immigrants who end up in the Emergency Rooms across this country. So that expense continues!
Did you know that there are billions of dollars set aside for healthcare education? But you have to be a minority to get it? How do you like that provision? Now you explain to me why COLLEGE TUITION MONEY is in this healthcare bill? And why is it only available to CERTAIN PEOPLE? My son is getting a degree in healthcare, but you mean to tell me my tax dollars will pay for somebody else's kid to get the same degree - but NOT MY SON? But moreover - why the hell would you put laws in place in a supposed HEALTHCARE REFORM BILL that deal with STUDENT TUITION??
I could go on and on but I am sure all I will hear is "oh well, you don't really know what is in that bill, b/c it really isn't a bill yet . . . no one knows," blah blah blah.
To you who wish to take that approach, then you tell me - WHAT ON THIS GOD'S GREEN EARTH IS IN THOSE 2700 pages?
The whole "NEW DEAL" under FDR did not total 2700 pages!!!
None of the Bills were implied, stated or even thought to cover all Americans. Illegals will still use clinic and emergency services, just as they do now. Yes, we all will continue to pay for that.
I have not seen anything in any of the bills that provide loans and grants specifically for minorities. Please show me.
Why wouldn't there be tuition help for students inclined to Primary Care and Nurse Practitioners, etc. We are in short supply of them. The bill adds 30 million people with Ins. that will actually be able to get these services.
There are many things we could do immediately and that people want that would help us all out with healthcare costs.
But it doesn't take 2700 pp of additional pork and regs to make that happen.
There are things in these bills that are past ridiculous - and I am not regurgitating what other folks have written or what the media has fed to the public. I have read the legislation (everything I could get my hands on)
I have been writing about this since June of 2009 when the Kennedy bill came out of committee. No one believed me then but the same provisions I was wringing my hands over are still in the legislation.
For ex - millions spent on commercials in spanish to tell kids to brush their teeth.
This legislation is a trainwreck b/c it has all sorts of ridiculous money-wasting crap in it that has NOTHING TO DO with lowering the cost of healthcare or with making healthcare more accessible.
Let me make this clear: this legislation AMENDS existing legislation. That this Administration has come up with 2700 pp of pork in order to AMEND an existing bill is unfathomable.
And to think the President wants it rushed through . . . it should make folks want to march in the streets! This bill is not healthcare reform!
The one thing that seems to not be argued is the run a way Giant Insurance Companies. Can we start with that , and pull the plug on these immoral entities. ? A one year debate hardly seems like a rush through Bill. Had the Republicans not been obstructionists, only the Party of NO , maybe by now a better Bill would be a little clearer. Most of them are not worthy of representing the People because they are not doing it. Once we get more supporters on board , public attitude will change quickly..stay tuned.
I have no clue what provision you are talking about b/c the bills that have been produced by both the Senate and House do not go into effect, as written, until 2013 and 2014.
There are other regs affecting entitlements, such as Medicare, that have been enacted but they are not part of this bill.
Stay tuned , your answers will become clearer this week. Obama made a start today , its about time he did. Most of the American people want the Public Option , once we get that in place , the polls will change.
Stay tuned , your answers will become clearer this week. Obama made a start today , its about time he did. Most of the American people want the Public Option , once we get that in place , the polls will change.
What Obama did today was laughable. A bunch of rah rah obfuscation in front of kids.
I have read the legislation - I don't need Obama's spin in order to explain to me what I read.
None of the Bills were implied, stated or even thought to cover all Americans. Illegals will still use clinic and emergency services, just as they do now. Yes, we all will continue to pay for that.
I have not seen anything in any of the bills that provide loans and grants specifically for minorities. Please show me.
Why wouldn't there be tuition help for students inclined to Primary Care and Nurse Practitioners, etc. We are in short supply of them. The bill adds 30 million people with Ins. that will actually be able to get these services.
Oh. That explains it. You HAVE NOT read the legislation - you have just read the synopsis. No wonder you have no clue what you are talking about.
Try wading through three bills, which I have done and not for "fun" - as part of my job.
And yes. This all started out with Obama saying he was going to "solve" the healthcare crisis in this country. It then evolved from "healthcare reform" to "insurance mandates." In the beginning, Obama assured everyone he was going to make sure ALL AMERICANS were covered.
Now it is a portion of the country that is to covered - by mandated insurance. And at such a tremendous cost - it makes my head hurt.
If you like Medicaid, your are just gonna LOVE this legislation, which will guarantee that your insurance policies will cover LESS than they do now.
And no. Don't ask me to show you where that is in the legislation. (meaning YOU in general, not BOB in particular). That is the problem in this country. People will argue over things they have no real knowledge about, simply b/c they read some pundit's analysis, a synopsis of 2700 pp, or a politician's spin and think they actually know something.
Until folks educate themselves, we are gonna get what we deserve - big surprises b/c no one knew what the heck was being pushed through.
BUT IT IS HEALTHCARE "REFORM" and we gotta have it now! Well, er, by 2013.
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