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Old 03-09-2010, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,799,372 times
Reputation: 24863

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We need to apply the same rules of conduct to individuals and to business. If that means individuals are responsible for all the debts they contract (even if the debts are more than they can pay) so should the individual owners (and managers) of a corporation. Limiting the responsibility of corporate owners to only their investment and corporate managers to nothing at all is what allows financial corporations to participate in the "Big Casino" instead of their proper business of producing good and/or services.

To repeat - we need one standard for all. If individuals have to pay it all back so do corporations to the limit of everyone's personal fortune. If an individual has to sell all they own to pay the debt so do the stockholders of a corporation.
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:30 AM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,326,750 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Do you mean corporate responsibility?

The 14th Amendment didn't just make corporations persons, it also made persons corporations.

Only JetGraphics can have "personal responsibility".

No one else has the appropriate legal status.
A corporation cannot, by legal definition, have "personal responsibility" - it can only have obligations and liabilities.

Before the 14th Amendment, persons were individuals, and by law, had "duties and responsibilities".

Now, all a "person" has by law, is obligations and liabilities.

There is no morality.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,085 posts, read 12,058,406 times
Reputation: 4125
The people who scream the extreme "All debt is bad" or "all banks/credit cards are evil" are trying to drum up negative emotional reactions against those entities so people won't look at the reasons they ran up their own debt. Rational people can look at the situation and make judgments about the severity of problems or decisions of debtors and credit agencies. Just pointing out the extreme bad abuses at one end is just misdirecting people away from their own issues, which few people would sympathize with, as a red herring because the debtor went hog wild and spent irresponsibly...but doesn't want to pay.

There are decent and bad things about either side of the coin, each with abuses and problems. This is just a populist argument, where the individual person is saintly/honorable but corporations/government are evil by virtue of being what they are. Which is horse-****, and doesn't base responsibility on action or intent by the organization or the individual. Nearly a Calvinist argument, that you are saved or damned before you are born so your actions are irrelevant to your souls deliverance (and one of the reasons only Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones left).
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:48 AM
 
768 posts, read 1,088,406 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
It is just business. You can't get angry then when they garnish your wages,
Agreed, unless you reside in one of the states that does not allow wage garnishment for debts of this nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
destroy your credit rating,
Yes, reporting a bad credit score is my concession to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
and take anything they can get with judgments for defaulting on the debt
Only if you are a property owner.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:32 PM
 
930 posts, read 2,423,892 times
Reputation: 1007
How about evaluating your behavior from the standpoint of "where would we be if everyone in America did this?"

What would happen if suddenly every person stopped paying their credit card, car payment, mortgage payment, and rent? Our economy would collapse.

The OP is encouraging irresponsible behavior here, and irresponsible people don't really need encouragement. They overspend and overcharge enough on their own.

People lived a lot smarter back when there was a debtor's prison. You need to let stupid fail and fail badly, or you will have an entire country of stupid people.
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:23 PM
 
768 posts, read 1,088,406 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beena View Post
How about evaluating your behavior from the standpoint of "where would we be if everyone in America did this?"

What would happen if suddenly every person stopped paying their credit card, car payment, mortgage payment, and rent? Our economy would collapse.

The OP is encouraging irresponsible behavior here, and irresponsible people don't really need encouragement. They overspend and overcharge enough on their own.

People lived a lot smarter back when there was a debtor's prison. You need to let stupid fail and fail badly, or you will have an entire country of stupid people.

You only addressed part of what I originally posted as did most of the people who replied.
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:24 PM
 
768 posts, read 1,088,406 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beena View Post
How about evaluating your behavior from the standpoint of "where would we be if everyone in America did this?"

What would happen if suddenly every person stopped paying their credit card, car payment, mortgage payment, and rent? Our economy would collapse.
Well, one can dream.
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:55 PM
 
768 posts, read 1,088,406 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Please do not confuse us or challenge our thinking by bringing to our attention what corporations do. We shallow and small minded people want to continue to believe that playing by the rules will guarantee us happiness and financial success. Besides, jealousy has stifled our objectivity
Well pardon me. By all means return to your illusions.
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:56 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,441,267 times
Reputation: 55562
oh i beg to differ sur. but that does make sense seeing that too often, they refinanced that mortgage every 6 months for the last 5 years b4 they decided to walk. we want too much we want too badly we want everything for nothin, joni mitchell sing it
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:27 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,877,697 times
Reputation: 18304
Basically if you can ;'t file bankrupsy it is a leagl and moral problem. That si why bankrupsy was passed as law. More and more are seeing this depending on the sate they are in. Morally you are burdened in the least with basicallty a deadbeat status on your loan trust worthyness at the worse you receive a 1099 from the debtholder on them writing off you as a debtor.The government receives this and looks at it has income.
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