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How many different governments has France been through in that timeframe? Look it up, you may be surprised.
A French classmate told me that few French people can remember all the Prime Ministers of the Fourth Republic during the 1950s. So weak was their constitution, that governments came and went at a rapid clip.
So yes, we would be surprised. And so would the French.
The concept of American exceptionalism (AE) is an ideology that has a long, sordid history. As one person claimed, perhaps it began with Winthrop, or maybe it had something to do with the idea of manifest destiny, or it could be the implications contained in the founding of the United States as a Republic, which was considered at the time to be an "experiment" based on Lockean, Hobbesean, Platonic, and Aristotlean political philosophy. Others argue that American exceptionalism gained new ground some 25 years or so after the Civil War when Frederick Jackson Turner penned his essay about the importance of the frontier in American history.
Personally, I find this ideology to be just that--an ideology. As with most ideologies, it places blinders on collective vision in that many Americans believe that the nation can do no wrong. This is rather paradoxical because many of the loudest proponents of AE today generally have the biggest complaints about the U.S. government as being too big, too restrictive of personal liberties, and they see the government as a massive redistributive wealth machine. I mean, isn't this problematic that the loudest proponents of AE actually hate the U.S. government, claim it's too big, and that the country's leaders are abusing their power? If the country was truly exceptional, then the U.S. would have the most exceptional government in addition to the most exceptional people, right?
In another sense, maybe this government-hatred by AE proponents render AE true because the U.S. government is so broken beyond belief.
AE at its essence is an imperialistic ideology. It is for this reason that Americans refer to themselves as "Americans" and often times substitute or shorten the name of the country to "America," which is actually a continent. On the American continent there are other nations, particularly Mexico and Canada. AE proponents and U.S. citizens in general claim that Mexico is in Central America and in many instances don't even consider Canada's existence as a separate nation. But if you travel to Canada and tell them you're an American, more than likely they'll say they're Americans too (I was told this in Montreal in 1996 by a Canadian bartender who asked me where I was from. "America" was an ambiguous answer).
This is an expression of imperialism because U.S. citizens act as if other nations are not part of the same continent or tacitly believe that the entire continent belongs to the United States. In light of the Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary, I guess that holds some weight. Through various policies of the U.S. government, this country has manipulated and attempted to control every government and economy in the western hemisphere to varying degrees.
Yet the absolute truth is the United States, or "America" as many of you refer to this nation, is populated by human beings. Human beings are not quite so different if they're from the U.S., Mexico, Russia, Afghanistan, or Mauritania. A place does not necessarily absolve humans from that place to be perfect or better than other humans not from that particular place. Human beings are fallible creatures, who make mistakes and the whole of human history is nothing but a long list of foibles and atrocities, whether those are of American origin or Russian, or British, or Australian, or whatever. People are people and we generally screw things up even when we have the best intentions.
But then it could be argued, I guess, that AE means Americans are exceptional when it comes to screwing things up. The idea that Americans are devoid of the capacity to make mistakes, the opposite view of the above viewpoint, is quite simply ridiculous. And as others on this thread have noted, Americans do indeed screw things up just like people in other countries do. Well if that is the case, then how is America exceptional? If this is the case, then the United States is not much different from other countries (in terms of screwing things up).
AE is hubris and it often gets the country in trouble in the eyes of world opinion. But then again the loudest proponents of positive AE claim world opinion doesn't matter, which is the ultimate expression of hubris. Other countries do matter because if those nations did not exist, then where would our crap be made? Where would we get baby cribs and strollers? Where would we get the clothing that we wear? Where would we get our automobiles (most of which are merely assembled in the U.S. but the component parts are actually made in Japan, Mexico, Canada, and elsewhere)?
I don't intend to suggest that nothing is made in the United States. There are three big things made in the U.S. that the world "benefits" from: food, tobacco products, and weapons.
AE is a dangerous ideology because it could be the main reason why Americans (not Canadians nor Mexicans nor Haitians nor Cubans) have exported manufacturing capability to other countries. Too many Americans consider it beneath them to make things for consumption. Instead, Americans have grown to enjoy the service economy and the roles of being servicers, like lawyers, accountants, insurance agents, doctors, and pharma reps, as well as advertisers (notice that I didn't use the word "servants" because that would be an anathema to those occupations that Americans consider as valuable and as the epitome of success). America is exceptional in some degrees, maybe not always positive however, since so many people in this country have made their livelihoods on being nothing more than middle men.
I know about Jefferson's infatuation with the French, he was a little in denial over the Reign of Terror. Hey, he was a human like everybody else (well, except for Lincoln, HE was a super human!)
But seriously, I DO believe in American Exceptionalism. I know that it makes a lot of people uncomfortable because crowing about it feels like arrogance. I get that. It's just not polite to shout across the Atlantic, "Hey, we're better than you!"
Furthermore, I don't think this exceptionalism will last forever. We are becoming more and more like every other European socialist country.
Well I appreciate your honesty and candor.
Of course I believe in american exceptionalism. Do I beleive it's the MOST excpetional, no. But no country is. I mean I live in Massachusetts, which is the "city upon a hill" alluded to by Winthrop in his speech.
But it's those people who go around saying it is, then blasting those who deviate, even slightly, who will destroy this country. Pride is a scary thing.
No civilization has lasted forever without altering dramtically, as with France per se. We can't assume that the America today will be the same way 500 years from now, or ever 100 years ago.
People who don't accept that, will have a very difficult time interacting with the world around them.
It has nothing to do with having pride. No nation on earth has accomplished all that we have so quickly in only 234 years!
If we fall and fail it will only be because people like you have the opinion that we should.
umm you wanna prove that?
Write me a list of everything we've done in those 234 years, but then you'll have to compare it to every other nation in a 234 year period.
All nations develop differently, so it can't just be the years 1776-2010. I mean for example, the Greeks gave us, democracy, medicine and philoshopy, science, astronomy, art and architecture, in oh, about a 50 year period.
It has nothing to do with having pride. No nation on earth has accomplished all that we have so quickly in only 234 years!
If we fall and fail it will only be because people like you have the opinion that we should.
England went from Pict and fuedal domination to the most powerful navy in the world in just about a century's time, from roughly 1400 to 1600. If an exceptional country is determined by accomplishments, then you must consider the accomplishments of other nations, past and present. So with this in mind, can American exceptionalism coexist with the exceptionalism of other nations, either past or present?
Wouldn't disagreements such as the ones illustrated on this thread be an example of American exceptionalism--the fact that folks can peacefully disagree with one another and are free to have contrary opinions?
The whole concept of AE is just too difficult to define and is subjective at its core. This kind of renders it meaningless to a certain degree, or it could be argued that it's part of what makes America exceptional. But we don't really know what it is, now do we?
See, you have convinced yourself I hate America. When in fact I haven't said, nor alluded to such a thought.
Just because every country thinks itself to be the most important doesn't make it so.
I think it is you who hates anyone who disagrees with you. Which by its own nature is unAmerican, so now I am the one calling you unAmerican and the hater.
It is people like you who would destroy this nation simply to fit your narrowminded and simplictic view of the world around you. Everything is black and white, which really is the heart of this arguement.
It is the same view that George Bush took, you're either with us or against us. Well that turned out fantastically. The world wanted us to take charge, we are the only nation to do so. Does it make us better than them? NO it doesn't. It makes us more capable. Those who have the power have the repsponsibilty. The wealthy are no better than the poor, right? Its the same thing, the same idea.
We no longer live in the American Century. That all changed 8 years ago, and 300,000,000 people know that except for you apparently. We live in a global society, the Global Century.
Would you really stand in front of a frenchmen, a greek or a chinese and tell them point blank, "I'm better than you because I'm American" I promise you, you will get a very unpleasant response, and far worse than the one I'm typing now.
The convenient thing about those such as yourself, is you do a very good job of making my case.........
How many times have I used the word hate in this thread ? I never said you hate America, seems someone has a guilty conscious and is trying to deflect their feelings on to someone else with their twisted logic. Where in this thread did I say,allude,suggest or hint that I am better than a person from another country? Now if you listen carefully with an open mind, you might learn something today...........Your post is full of typical Liberal smug name calling and assumptions, what color am I, what country is my wife from, what nationality to my children share, you see when you throw around the word hate as freely as you do it shows you to be an ignorant partisan ideologue that is actually guilty of that which you so readily accuse others of. This thread is about America! the best country in the world, nothing personal. you are welcome.
It has nothing to do with having pride. No nation on earth has accomplished all that we have so quickly in only 234 years!
If we fall and fail it will only be because people like you have the opinion that we should.
Agreed and not agreed.
Take the statement "the world is jealous of America". That is a narcissisitic statement. America is great for various reasons, and for some reasons others might envy it, however it doesn't mean everybody envies it over everything all the time.
When one becomes so wrapped up in pride and being #1, is when a leader can sell a fool that "we are bring democracy to the world and they want it." Well maybe they don't want it? Maybe they envy America for certain things but not to the point of America taking over them?
It is interesting that the many of the same people cry that they are tired of being the "policemen" of the world refuse to pull out of a country and absolutely support sending the troops across the world. Which makes me believe they are more concerned with maintaining a political and military dominance in the world and use the excuse of "bring democracy" to justfy it.
We fought Iraq out of Kuwait, yet set up permanent bases in Saudia Arabia.
We are still in Germany, Japan, Korea, South America (drug war), various Indonesian and carribean islands, former Baltic countries, now Afghanistan and Iraq also. The only reason we don't have bases in Vietnam is because we lost. All this despite the fact that most former enemies are long gone.
I'd say for some pride has gone to their head. Nothing wrong with pride to a extent I suppose, but too much is not good
The convenient thing about those such as yourself, is you do a very good job of making my case.........
How many times have I used the word hate in this thread ? I never said you hate America, seems someone has a guilty conscious and is trying to deflect their feelings on to someone else with their twisted logic. Where in this thread did I say,allude,suggest or hint that I am better than a person from another country? Now if you listen carefully with an open mind, you might learn something today...........Your post is full of typical Liberal smug name calling and assumptions, what color am I, what country is my wife from, what nationality to my children share, you see when you throw around the word hate as freely as you do it shows you to be an ignorant partisan ideologue that is actually guilty of that which you so readily accuse others of. This thread is about America! the best country in the world, nothing personal. you are welcome.
The convenient thing about those such as yourself, is you do a very good job of making my case.........
How many times have I used the word hate in this thread ? I never said you hate America, seems someone has a guilty conscious and is trying to deflect their feelings on to someone else with their twisted logic. Where in this thread did I say,allude,suggest or hint that I am better than a person from another country? Now if you listen carefully with an open mind, you might learn something today...........Your post is full of typical Liberal smug name calling and assumptions, what color am I, what country is my wife from, what nationality to my children share, you see when you throw around the word hate as freely as you do it shows you to be an ignorant partisan ideologue that is actually guilty of that which you so readily accuse others of. This thread is about America! the best country in the world, nothing personal. you are welcome.
No, but implying is just as good as stating it.
You should read Jackson's posts above, pure brillance, and speaks directly to your diatribes.
I don't know anything about you, so I'm not judging you or your background, why would I? What fair is that? How human is that? I am only judging based upon what I'm reading. But you presumed that I am some smug liberal jerkoff, simply because I don't agree with you spefically.
Your last statement gives me the problem I have with all if your posts here. You forcably believe in something so much that ANYONE who doesn't is beneath you and not worthy of this nation. Which of course is to the contrary to America itself.
Again, what about the 6.7 billion humans who don't live in America? What about their accomplishments? their beliefs and customs? Are they less human because they are not American? What is America anyway? We're have no discernable culture of our own, and yet we have every culture.
You need to think about what is exactly exceptional about America. What is exceptional about being human? How do the French see themselves, or the British? Don't you think the Queen wakes up everyday and think to herself, "Boy my family used to RULE the world." Oh well, but somehow the manage with themselves.
How will America manage itself one day?
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