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Why can't Right and Left unite on issue of Immigration?
Most are against illegal immigration, however many on the right are against any type of immigration, including legal. Ask them if they support a decrease or complete halt of legal immigrants. Right and left also differ as to the solution. Left believes in going after the employers of illegal immigrants, Right believes in going after the illegals themselves. The right also have no problem sacrificing our civil liberties for the sake of stopping illegal immigrants, whereas the left is not willing to shred the Constitution or forgo any of OUR rights, preceived or otherwise real. Basically the left values freedom and the right values security and neither is willing to compromise.
Either that or the Left is a bunch of Racist Reconquista illegal loving America hating Communists that have secretly desired to see America in ruins.
I must admit that I too would like to see all immigration curbed. The issue I have is with the abuse of the current system. According to the rules of work visas, companies are supposed to only seek immigrant workers to fill positions that that can't be filled by Americans. The problem is that employers use it to import not workers who have skills no Americans have but instead to import people who are willing to work cheap. The IT industry in particular is jam-packed with immigrants who will sell their skills for grossly substandard wages. It's not that there are no Americans to fill these positions or that they won't work for competitive wages. The brutal reality is that even skilled and educated immigrant workers don't know the labor laws and can be exploited easier than Americans.
Many employers prefer skilled immigrants because they can work them to the bone, rip them off, and generally abuse them without fear of retribution simply because their workers don't know any better. The last thing they want is an American in the office because when they all start fraternizing, the newcomers will quickly learn they are being duped.
Personally I have no issue with a national ID and as long as it's not abused and think at least in theory it would be an outstanding idea. But, I can also see the potential for using it to push us even further into a police state. Beside that, it could very possibly be unconstitutional depending on how the 14th amendment is interpreted. Because of the potential for abuse of a national ID, I prefer beefing up the borders and taking a more serious look at enforcement of our current immigration laws.
Why can't Right and Left unite on issue of Immigration?
Most are against illegal immigration, however many on the right are against any type of immigration, including legal. Ask them if they support a decrease or complete halt of legal immigrants.
This is a straw man argument. "Many on the right"?? That is ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield
Right and left also differ as to the solution. Left believes in going after the employers of illegal immigrants,
The state of AZ has a law to require all emploers to E-Vreify all employees, and if they knowingly hire illegals they have stiff penalties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield
Right believes in going after the illegals themselves.
There are business owners on both the left and right who want no control over the borders, because they want to hire cheap labor. Wanting cheap labor is not a political policy, its one of personal greed. You cannot tell me every owner of a meat packing plant or large farm is a republican.
Listen to all voices on the right, they want to prevent employers from employing illegals, even characterizing it as a form of modern slavery at worst, and servitude at minimum. Those on the right, for example Gingrich, also want our worker visa laws and process improved to meet a very real demand for migrant/guest workers.
The right also says before we can do anything else, the borders must be secure, otherwise nothing else will matter, because in ten to fifteen years we will have another call for amnesty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield
The right also have no problem sacrificing our civil liberties for the sake of stopping illegal immigrants, whereas the left is not willing to shred the Constitution or forgo any of OUR rights, preceived or otherwise real. Basically the left values freedom and the right values security and neither is willing to compromise.
Either that or the Left is a bunch of Racist Reconquista illegal loving America hating Communists that have secretly desired to see America in ruins.
Clarify this idea that the right wants to forgo our rights or "shred the Constitution".
You toss around so many straw man arguments, I hope you are not a smoker.
have you read the law? The law allows police to ask anyone they have stopped, not just arrested. I have no problem with verifying legal status once you have been arrested. To ask citizens to prove their citizenship, even when they have not been arrested is wrong and is a violation of civil liberties. This is the difference between right and left, the right does not see this as a violation.
They have to be stopping you because they are enforcing some law or ordinance. They cannot just "stop" you on the street and ask for ID, just for grins.
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL STOP, DETENTION OR ARREST MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF ANY OTHER LAW OR ORDINANCE OF A COUNTY, CITY OR TOWN OR THIS STATE
The problem with "common sense" is that it's not very common, and it rarely makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by averagejoe76
Millions breaking into our country illegally..
Our schools,hospitals,social services pay the price.
Wages are being pushed down by cheap labor.
There are many issues economically and well as culturally.
Majority of Americans favor tighter control of Immigration.
So why arent the left-leaning speaking out?
Obama and a solid majority of Democrats are for pushing Amnesty.
Its not hard to see why, millions giving amnesty would become..
Democrat voters.
Because most of this is, frankly, a red herring.
We are a capitalist system. And as such, low cost labor equals competitive advantage. But if you think that the issue of "Wages are being pushed down by cheap labor" is an illegal immigration issue, you're not paying very close attention.
The wages that illegal immigrants "push down" are actually already so low that they have little domestic competition for them. These are the menial labor, domestic service and agricultural jobs that tend to go unfilled without a ready source of unskilled foreign labor. I know that as recently as three years ago, we had produce rotting in the fields in Colorado because of a crackdown on illegal immigration, and no domestic workers willing to do the job. This simple fact is the reason why so many thoughtful people (to include many Republicans) support a "guest worker" program.
The real wages we need to be concerned about are not those for picking strawberries. They are those for manufacturing television sets or writing computer programs. And in this case (again, because we are a capitalist system) the simple truth is that if people can't come to those jobs, the jobs will eventually go to those people. The huge number of well paying American manufacturing jobs that have fled to Tijuana and Mexicali and Juarez are a far more important issue than the housekeeping and gardening jobs filled by some campesino without papers who waded the Rio Grande.
And you will note, I hope, that this issue... the real issue we should be debating... has nothing to do with immigration, illegal or otherwise.
The whole "illegal immigrant" debate is paralyzed by the fact that it is based on rage and not reason.
The only reason it's become a "party line" issue is because at this moment in history, the American right wing has only a single arrow in their quiver; rage. It has not always been that way, it hopefully will not always be that way.
But right now, rage is what the right wing is pretending substitutes for a plan.
If the police approach you because they have reason to assume you have broken some law or ordinance, such as assault, robbery, rape, murder, theft etc... don't you think the police need to find out who you are? You may be an escaped convict, bail jumper, terrorist, or violating your court mandated distance to schools and playgrounds due to your sexual abuse of children.
Asking for your ID is what law enforcement officers all over the United States do when they write you a citation or arrest you. All this law does is ask a person who has provided fraudulent ID, stolen SSN or other identification that does not match, to provide proof of citizenship on top of finding out just who they have in custody.
I am a lefty and I am AGAINST illegal immigration. It is common sense to be against it. Hence the word, ILLEGAL.
Your against ALL forms of immigration, including legal. So stop throwing in the word illegal.
Secondly, the old "I'm a lefty" bit is getting old. Rush Limbaugh gets callers often who call themselves "Dye in the wool Conservative Republicans" in the beginning of the conversation. El Rushbo calls them out immediately and revealst they are really not right wingers. Lefty shmefty. You support racial profiling, you are anti immigration, you are anti Muslim, pro death penalty, anti 4th amendment, support mandatory identification, and you blame one racial group for the immigration problem. If that is a lefty, I want no such part of it, sign me up Constitution Party.
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