Looking for Opinions on Landlord Tenant issue... (hardwood floor, rentals)

[buddy72]

We moved into a rental property on April 1 2010. Paid the landlord a $500 nonrefundable cleaning fee and $2800 security deposit. Upon 1st walk thru we noted issues that were at the time verbally agreed upon that were existing. After attempts to get them documented it never happened. I took the liberty of photos 5 days after move in with Date and Time stamp on them of issues for example worn grooves in hardwood from Refrigerator, grout cracking, failed attempts with wrong color of paint on chips (baseboards, handrails, doors). Occupied for 2.5 years we had to break the lease 6 months early to leave and care for my mother with cancer. He threatened to come after for monies owed. I told him i would continue to pay the rent as i took the responsibility to find a new renter. Took 1.5 months and no money was lost. We moved out and had Stanley Steamer clean all carpets and Hardwoods professionally. Upon final walk thru he told me that the house looked great and that everything looked like normal wear and tear and he would refund our deposit. I took additional photos of same issues still there(date and time embedded also) before our final walk thru feeling skeptical about what could transpire. 28 days later I reminded that the 31 days was approaching and could we expect the deposit on the 31st day. Email response below...

"I just want to give you a heads up. The kitchen floor was scratched and damaged. I inspected the house with new tenants and they pointed out those issues. It appears the refrigerator was moved and there were several dents in the floor as well. This is not normal wear and tear and didn't exist prior to renting to you. It appears the repairs and refinishing will cost more than what was in the refundable part of the deposit. Also there were other areas found that I missed in our inspection around the staircase that were dents and damage that didnt exist before. I won't be able to refund your deposit as a result."

My question is with Photos dated at move in and move out do i have a case to collect my deposits... ?

Would post pics but telling me site maintenance is happening...

[christiner81]

ask a lawyer.

[oregonwoodsmoke]

I can't see how photos taken 5 days after you moved in are going to do you any good. It's possible that you have photos of damage you did yourself moving furniture in.

You can try it. Go to small claims court and see what the judge says. Don't be too optimistic and be aware that the landlord has the right to counter-sue and if you lose, it could cost you some money. That's the risk you take with every lawsuit, that you might not win.

[Minervah]

Your word against his. No proof on your part. I doubt that you will win. You could take him to small claims court but you don't appear to have a strong enough case. I don't see any violations of the Landlord Tenant Ordinance on his part. Since you are asking opinions because no one here can give you legal advice, I do not think you have a case. Sorry.

Oh one more thing, at one point you said you broke your lease and your landlord threatened to come at you for money owed. Why did he have to do that if you intended to pay him? I only bring this up because if you make an issue of him not returning your deposits in court, he can always come back and claim you were a deadbeat tenant. You may also want him to give you a reference for future rentals some day.

I think I would just write this off if I were you. Again, just an opinion. The only violation of the Landlord Tenant Ordinance I can see is your not paying your rent in a timely manner if that in fact was the situation.

[Steve Pickering]

Did you expect anything different? For that amount, get an attorney.

[JBPisgah]

Originally Posted by Minervah

Your word against his. No proof on your part. I doubt that you will win. You could take him to small claims court but you don't appear to have a strong enough case. I don't see any violations of the Landlord Tenant Ordinance on his part. Since you are asking opinions because no one here can give you legal advice, I do not think you have a case. Sorry.

Oh one more thing, at one point you said you broke your lease and your landlord threatened to come at you for money owed. Why did he have to do that if you intended to pay him? I only bring this up because if you make an issue of him not returning your deposits in court, he can always come back and claim you were a deadbeat tenant. You may also want him to give you a reference for future rentals some day.

I think I would just write this off if I were you. Again, just an opinion. The only violation of the Landlord Tenant Ordinance I can see is your not paying your rent in a timely manner if that in fact was the situation.

Of course there was a violation: deducting money from a security deposit for pre-existing damage. That's illegal. Find out what the damages are according to the L-T ordinance for illegal deductions. Consider hiring a lawyer to write a threatening letter.

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by JB Pisgah

Of course there was a violation: deducting money from a security deposit for pre-existing damage. That's illegal. Find out what the damages are according to the L-T ordinance for illegal deductions. Consider hiring a lawyer to write a threatening letter.

Again, where is the proof? We have only the word of the tenant here. Issues were verbally notedwhen the tenant moved in. That doesn't mean a thing. Again we have only the tenant's word and while it is probably true, the landlord can say it never happened. Photos were taken after the tenant moved in. Nothing was notarized or verified by both tenant and landlord. Time stamps showing up five days later aren't going to verify damage being done before the tenant moved in.

All I see here that can be verified is that the OP did not pay rent in a timely manner at one point. That is the only thing that ever appeared in writing that was not adhered to.

[buddy72]

Originally Posted by Minervah

Again, where is the proof? We have only the word of the tenant here. Issues were verbally notedwhen the tenant moved in. That doesn't mean a thing. Again we have only the tenant's word and while it is probably true, the landlord can say it never happened. Photos were taken after the tenant moved in. Nothing was notarized or verified by both tenant and landlord. Time stamps showing up five days later aren't going to verify damage being done before the tenant moved in.

All I see here that can be verified is that the OP did not pay rent in a timely manner at one point. That is the only thing that ever appeared in writing that was not adhered to.

I understand that this is all opinion. We paid rent every month and on or before time due for 2 years. We had to break the lease 6 months early because my mother developed breast and lung cancer. Because she didnt make a lot of money we took it on to help with her bills and house payment so she didnt lose her home and lived comfortable being SS doesnt pay squat for her and she didnt qualify for medicare being under 65. We make a good living but paying for our rent, car, normal debt stuff and then taking on her stuff it started to be a bit much. So we made a family and financial decision to move into her place, pay her mortgage and giving her family around her at all times.. Its been the best for her.

Back to the landlord. We had moved out and i told him I would continue to pay rent and I would take the liberty of finding new tenants. We paid all utilities and rent up to finding and signing the new renters. So no money was lost and he actually gained a longer lease than when we would have moved out. On our walk thru it was a verbal agreement that everything looked good. Even admitted when we both stood there about the wear marks that they he remembered them being there. No worries he said.. Said i will send you your security deposit after 31 days. It was on the 28th day that i sent him a reminder as to expecting the return and he wrote that after doing the walk through (an hour after we did exit) he said the kitchen hardwood floor was scratched and had dents. He said that when he did the inspection with the new tenants and they pointed them out... Since when does someone else walk thru determine what ours was. He should have addressed them on our walk thru. Since emailing back and forth he has attacked me for canceling utilities and and that we agreed i would continue paying them until new tenants. Said in my email that my integrity and credibility are diminished and that he was going to send the utility companies documentation of agreement and that they would come after ME.... well after calling all utility companies and confirming what I already knew, they are all sending me letters on letterhead that I have never had a disruption in service throughout the entire length up until the new tenants took over. So proving that his credibility is in fact in question. His lease may also be an issue because he collected a $500 NON REFUNDABLE cleaning fee. We signed our lease in 2010.
ORS.90.302
Fees Permitted in Rental Agreements on or After January 1, 2010: For leases signed on or after January 1, 2010, landlords may not charge a cleaning fee, administrative fee, move-in/move-out fee, or pet fee. Leases signed prior to January 1, 2010 may include such fees.

We also never received a copy of our signed lease that included the walk thru checklist and we have emails asking for this several times and always getting a response that he is out of the country, state or just not home. That he would get to it when he got back. Sorry for so for the rambling. Guess i am just sick of people taking advantage of other people. The new tenants even said he didnt remember seeing the hardwood floor scratched. How could he not have seen them an hour before. I understand its his word against mine. I have a lot of emails of him agreeing to one thing and mentioning another. Said in an email that we agreed for him to keep that 500 to hold for issues found then because he does a walk thru with others after the matter. He chooses to keep it all... makes no sense...

[Minervah]

I don't want you to think I am picking on you. I worked in Probate and sometimes sat in on other courts like small claims court just to see what was going on. No matter how fair or unfair a situation was, there are certain proofs that have to be had and they have to be written and signed and for the sake of the poor judge who sees so many of these disputes, brief and to the point.

At this point, if you want justice as you see it, a website may be handy for stating your case and venting, I get that, but your only real recouse is to gather all this evidence you believe you have and take it either to an attorney or small claims court. The law isn't based on what you think is fair or who does or does not get taken advantage of. That is in legal terms, hersay and opinon.

You are dealing with contract law. A judge will determine whether or not a contract was violated based on The Oregon Landlord Tenant Ordinance which is basically the basis of the contract between you and your landlord. The judge will base his or her determination upon this Ordinance as to whether or not there are any violations of this contract on either side.

It's not a matter of what you feel or believe of what your landlord feels or believes. Your landlord knows that. He is going to play by the actual rules and if you want any justice that's what you are going to have to do. Since you feel so pasionately about this and there is money at stake, maybe you should go ahead and take legal recourse and stop spending time asking questions on the Internet. With all due respect, I don't see what you are gaining by doing that.

[AndyAMG]

You have to ask yourself one question: Are my pockets deep enough to in the end be in the hole financially and have my time wasted? I have sued and won. But.. It was a principle suit against a tenant. In the end I spent more than I got in the judgement and wasted several days. Plus, I wasn't ever paid.... that's a whole other story. If you're willing to spend $1500 dollars to get $500 dollars... be my guest. In hindsight the only person who wins in these kinds battles is a lawyer.