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Exactly. At the very least these areas would be accessible to high paying jobs in the bay area or Manhattan that would make it worth it.
To Urbanlife: Yes, not everyone wants to live in wealthy areas with great schools... Drug dealers, pimps, gangs and other do enjoy living in run-down areas it seems... But please exhibit to me the rankings of Lake O High versus Roosevelt? Or how about crime statistics for the two areas? You're definition of a "good" neighborhood and "good schools" is skewed by your obsession for being a cheerleader for PDX.
PDX has expensive housing and COL in comparison to how much people make. Some would say in this thread that moving in to a $250K house on $60K combined income is somehow reasonable or responsible...but it's not even close. That's over 4x gross income, that pretty much breaks every house buying rule in the book. You will be living like a family on welfare and food stamps at that level and none the less, at $250K you're looking at a very old house that WILL need a lot of work. It's not going to happen on $60K for too long.
Wow, what are you talking about? There are lots of decent and good neighborhoods in Portland that aren't full of drug dealers, pimps, gangs, and such.
Seriously, how long ago did you move away from Portland because it seems like you think all these neighborhoods and towns are all crime ridden or something. Hardly being a cheerleader for PDX, I just understand that one can still find a house in Portland in a good neighborhood.
Heck, two people making $35K each or $40K each and then all of a sudden they have an income of $70-80K. It isn't that hard to find a house in the Portland metro if one really wants to buy and they have enough saved for a downpayment.
Heck, do you even know how much a house would cost in St John's or Milwaukie?
Places like the Bay Area and NYC might have access to high paying jobs, but not everyone in those places have high paying jobs which makes it harder for them to live in those areas. In the Portland Metro it isn't unrealistic to find a place to buy if you aren't in a high income job. I have a number of friends that are home owners here that aren't what one would consider a high earner.
I disagree, I have known a few people that have lived or still live in St Johns and they all seem to love it there. I have always thought the area to be nice. I have family that live in East Portland in a really nice neighborhood and there are a number of good neighborhoods in East Portland. Heck, I my best friend lives over in the Madison South neighborhood and loves it, which that is a great area for one who is looking for a house they can afford.
Not everyone wants to live in the Pearl District or Lake O.
I am not saying St Johns is not "nice." It is fine. East Rutherford NJ is also fine. I am saying they are similar types of neighborhoods and have similar transportation options to their respective city centers, and more importantly to where the jobs are. In Portland, the well paying jobs are going to be clustered around Downtown and the Pearl, OSHU and out in Beaverton. I would not want to commute from either St. Johns or East Portland to Beaverton. You would have to drive with a very slow commute. If you worked in the Pearl, you could take a bus. Downtown Oakland and Harlem were not apt comparisons because both are connected by trains, buses and in Oakland's case, even a ferry. Harlem is served by 2 subway lines, buses, and even metro north if you are in the right part.
I just did a property search. My friend's 4BD/2BA home in NJ is valued at $360K. He is limited to one bus that goes into Manhattan. However, his pay in Manhattan as a lower level bank IT manager guy is just over $200K. His wife is a nurse midwife who works part time but still adds about $50K to the household income. If he lived in St. Johns his house would cost nearly the same, or maybe more. I looked up a few and the 4BD/2BA homes were all over $300K. However, he would be lucky to get paid $80K working in the Pearl somewhere. I am not sure how much his wife would get paid in PDX, but there are just so many more people in the NYC metro that her potential income is that much greater. That is what is being meant when it is said that Portland is "unaffordable."
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78
Heck, two people making $35K each or $40K each and then all of a sudden they have an income of $70-80K. It isn't that hard to find a house in the Portland metro if one really wants to buy and they have enough saved for a downpayment.
I do not think anyone in Portland, even a couple with dual salaries double what you suggest, would say that it "isn't that hard to find a house in the Portland metro." It is actually a real headache.
I am not saying St Johns is not "nice." It is fine. East Rutherford NJ is also fine. I am saying they are similar types of neighborhoods and have similar transportation options to their respective city centers, and more importantly to where the jobs are. In Portland, the well paying jobs are going to be clustered around Downtown and the Pearl, OSHU and out in Beaverton. I would not want to commute from either St. Johns or East Portland to Beaverton. You would have to drive with a very slow commute. If you worked in the Pearl, you could take a bus.
I just did a property search. My friend's 4BD/2BA home in NJ is valued at $360K. He is limited to one bus that goes into Manhattan. However, his pay in Manhattan as a lower level bank IT manager guy is just over $200K. His wife is a nurse midwife who works part time but still adds about $50K to the household income. If he lived in St. Johns his house would cost nearly the same (maybe more?), but he would be lucky to get paid $80K working in the Pearl somewhere. I am not sure how much his wife would get paid in PDX, but there are just so many more people in the NYC metro that her potential income is that much greater. That is what is being meant when it is said that Portland is "unaffordable."
Why would one want to buy a house in St Johns if their job is in Beaverton? That would be a bad idea, it would be much smarter to buy a place somewhere west of the West Hills.
How long does it take your buddy in NJ to commute to work each day? My bet is that he would probably be making about $80-100K here and his wife would probably make $30-40K and would be able to afford a house for $250-300K in Portland.
If you are hoping for Portland to get NYC pay rates, then you will be waiting a long time, but not everything is about pay scale and the cost of living is lower here than it is for those in NYC and it makes it much easier for one to buy a house here because of that.
Sure your friend in NJ makes $200K, but not everyone there makes that much there and the rule in the NYC metro was you want it cheap, close-in, and safe, but you can only pick two. That same rule doesn't really apply here.
I do not think anyone in Portland, even a couple with dual salaries double what you suggest, would say that it "isn't that hard to find a house in the Portland metro." It is actually a real headache.
That has less to do with the housing cost being too high and more to do with the limited number of houses for sale, not a lot of people are looking to move out of Portland or sell their homes.
Sure, but the point is. All the "cheap" housing options that are left in Portland are inconvenient to where people actually can get paid well. Or even not get paid well. Based on commute headache, why would someone want to buy a house in St. Johns at all? Virtually all the jobs are downtown/pearl, OSHU and out in the Beaverton area. There is no high paying jobs area that is convenient to St. Johns. That is why it is cheap. However, it isn't actually that cheap. In fact, if you were going to live in St. Johns, why not just live up in Vancouver?
I don't really get your logic abut my friend. Why would he bother with Portland when his house in NJ costs the same as it would in Portland, yet his household income is nearly double what it would be in Portland? That is why NJ is more "affordable" than Portland. The homes are similarly priced, but the salaries are far higher.
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78
That has less to do with the housing cost being too high and more to do with the limited number of houses for sale, not a lot of people are looking to move out of Portland or sell their homes.
Call me crazy, but I have this suspicion that the limited number of houses and the housing costs being too high might be linked in some way...
Sure, but the point is. All the "cheap" housing options that are left in Portland are inconvenient to where people actually can get paid well. Or even not get paid well. Based on commute headache, why would someone want to buy a house in St. Johns at all? Virtually all the jobs are downtown/pearl, OSHU and out in the Beaverton area. There is no high paying jobs area that is convenient to St. Johns. That is why it is cheap. However, it isn't actually that cheap. In fact, if you were going to live in St. Johns, why not just live up in Vancouver?
I don't really get your logic abut my friend. Why would he bother with Portland when his house in NJ costs the same as it would in Portland, yet his household income is nearly double what it would be in Portland. Plus if he ever got fired, there are about a thousand other jobs in Manhattan he could do, whereas in Portland, there are like seven.
You bring up a great point here. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that PDX is "greatly concentrated" and that residents enjoy the accessibility due to their not being sprawl...I'll caveat that with saying that my 9 mile commute to Downtown PDX took almost an hour during rush hour traffic, while my 30 mile commute to Downtown Houston takes about 30-40 minutes, (1HR on a terrible day). So yes, things are a lot closer but you spend just as much if not more time in traffic than other major metros.
You bring up a great point here. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that PDX is "greatly concentrated" and that residents enjoy the accessibility due to their not being sprawl...I'll caveat that with saying that my 9 mile commute to Downtown PDX took almost an hour during rush hour traffic, while my 30 mile commute to Downtown Houston takes about 30-40 minutes, (1HR on a terrible day). So yes, things are a lot closer but you spend just as much if not more time in traffic than other major metros.
In Portland your commute pain is based on on whether or not you have to drive on the main corridors to work.
If you can take transit in, your commute is not so bad. If you have to drive, it can really suck. However, some neighborhoods in Portland have good side routes where you can sort of sneak in while avoiding the worst traffic.
In Portland your commute pain is based on on whether or not you have to drive on the main corridors to work.
If you can take transit in, your commute is not so bad. If you have to drive, it can really suck. However, some neighborhoods in Portland have good side routes where you can sort of sneak in while avoiding the worst traffic.
True. I was comparing apples to apples however as both commutes were from a suburb location through a major corridor and in to and out of downtown.
However yes if you live near a MAX line or can sneak down through the westhills or back by 405 through St. Helens, it may not be so bad.
Portland is a desirable place to live close-in, so of course it's going to be more expensive.
I saw the same phenomenon that goes on in Portland in Bend. If I wanted to own, which I did, I was going to have to consider non-Bend options. A good, stable, middle class job and zero debt was not enough to afford the inflated housing costs.
Once I did that, opportunities opened up but I don't get to live in the trendy part.
Texas hardly has UGBs, and mostly flat or rolling prairie surrounding its cities so when they need more houses, they plop them down for untold miles. They don't give a damn what they bulldoze there. I can guarantee that if you move to Houston, you will "spend more" in terms of time stuck in traffic - quite possibly 10-14 hours a week, so it depends how much your time is worth to you.
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If you can take transit in, your commute is not so bad
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I've only had problems on I-5. Even then, only when accidents happen did it create a >40 minute trip. A 40 minute 1-way commute is a normal way of life in Houston or Dallas.
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