Portland, OR: Anti-Science Leader (public school, live, cost)

[Nell Plotts]

Radon gas or radiation from nuclear plants? The first you can mitigate, the latter - until the Feds deliver on safe storage - is a non-starter for the future in Oregon.

[sorupaa]

I just won't swim in the ocean much and not eat much sea food and if there's a virus that will kill you going around I'll just move to the woods

[ormari]

Originally Posted by Nell Plotts

I am much older than most of you and have young grandchildren. I am old enough to have had the MMR type vaccines but also Smallpox vaccine.

IMHO if we permit parents to postpone or not use a vaccine I think is it is the right of other parents to know that such a child is in their midst. Parents with children who are immune suppressed or too young to receive a vaccine should be entitled to that information. If the no-vax children are excluded from activities such as play-dates that is the price those children pay for their parent's decisions. If you really believe that vaccines are too risky for your child get a backbone and share your position with others. If they, in turn, avoid your child so be it.

I've had all my shots too... and I have no kids. And I think open sharing of one's vaccination status is a good goal to have.

The problem I have with the part in bold is forced medication of one population so that another population can avoid the vaccine. There is something not quite right about that, as you are shifting risk from one party to another. Yes, I am aware that you are trading a higher risk for a lower one, but you are doing so at the expense of a person with no skin in the game, with no remuneration if something goes awry. I can, however, see why health professionals have mandatory vaccinations.

I am not here to argue that I think vaccines are unsafe in general and I am not a medical doctor. However, if there are safety issues with the vaccines or if the person receiving the vaccine is a statistical anomaly and has a severe reaction, their lives have been negatively impacted for the benefit of the immune suppressed individuals, without any compensation. While the risk may indeed be vanishingly small, I can see why some are wary of them.

I think that our public health officials do a disservice by not facilitating an open conversation about these issues. If you read the CDC or WHO websites about such things, they are a bit preachy and the dialog is fairly dumbed-down. They would be more effective at delivering their message by treating these concerns as legitimate questions and answering them accordingly. A condescending response just makes those who doubt science, doubt it more.

[sorupaa]

We are probably the only species that doesn't want the natural way of life. We are really unhealthy, people live to be 120 or something in good conditions and never get sick.

[Nell Plotts]

I almost died when a child from the measles, before the vaccine was available. I was hospitalized and after discharged was bedridden for 3 months. My left ear drained puss for weeks. Mother kept the letters sent by my classmates to keep my spirits up, I have them to this day.

My siblings also caught the measles but weren't nearly as ill.

I don't wish that infection on anyone.

[JonathanLB]

Originally Posted by ormari

Since you say you have done some research, perhaps you would like to share some citations to back up your claims?

I'm pretty lazy and not that interested in convincing anyone else on the Internet. I mean, that's what Google is for, to be honest. But here are a few:

"Organic food no more nutritious than conventionally grown food"
Organic food no more nutritious than conventionally grown food - Harvard Health Blog - Harvard Health Publications

"Organic food no better for you, or the planet"
Organic food: no better for you, or the planet - environment - 04 September 2012 - New Scientist

"Organic food not healthier, says FSA"
Organic food not healthier, says FSA | Environment | The Guardian

Finally, organic foods don't taste better, either, and may in fact taste worse:
"Organic food less tasty than normal"
Organic food less tasty than normal, watchdog says - Telegraph

There are just a few, and I made sure all of them aren't just citing the same research over and over. There are a ton citing the first source, specifically that Annals of Internal Medicine study.

If you want to eat organic for some reason, I mean, go ahead. I'll stick with my much cheaper diet. I'm already in the top 2% of people at any age for strength and conditioning and I value my diet highly, so I'm willing to bet most of the morons paying double for organic food would do better to put that extra money into personal training, a better mattress (sleep is so important), or something worthwhile. Health is incredibly important, but organic isn't the answer. It has become something of a religion and just like religion, most of its adherents aren't logical thinkers and seem to care little about the research, just the dogma.

[sorupaa]

Importance Of Minerals & Trace Minerals

A diet rich in green vegetables and fruits, and whole grains grown in fertile soil may afford some assurance of minerals, but much of our soil today is depleted and lacking in essential nutrients.

I think I'll go with GMO, when normal plants arnt even that good lol

[ormari]

Originally Posted by JonathanLB

I'm pretty lazy and not that interested in convincing anyone else on the Internet. I mean, that's what Google is for, to be honest. But here are a few:

...

Thanks for posting the links. Sure, I know how to use google and other search engines as well, and probably use them too much. The point was you said you had done a ton of research already, which basically screams for citations to be proffered. Were all your findings so dubious of organic benefits, or is this a selected reference list?

I do not personally buy much in the way of organically produced food. In fact nothing in my food budget for the last month bore the organic label, though occasionally I will buy something that is labelled as such. However, I would not say that the very act of buying organically produced food makes someone a moron, as you state. People are concerned about sustainable practices--for good reason I think--and there are lots of questions to be answered.

[sorupaa]

Why do they sometimes change ingredient names of stuff bad for you and they don't say if its GMO on the package?

That's enough for me, someday we will know if its good or not

[JonathanLB]

See that's kind of the problem, though, organic farming isn't really "sustainable." If everyone ate nothing but organic foods, there wouldn't be enough food to feed the world population. The farming techniques are inefficient, unlike huge farms that the hipsters seem to detest. My girlfriend also did a research project for a class specifically on local / sustainable farming and global food, etc., and she found that "small farm" didn't really mean "small," it simply meant owned by a couple or an individual and sometimes those were still enormous enterprises that exploited workers just as much if not MORE than the bigger farms, because they could fly under the radar more. She (and me, too) was very surprised that the whole "locally grown" movement isn't very important or efficient either, which was a surprise for sure, because a lot of the time those factors were outweighed by the difficulty of growing many types of things locally and that it doesn't seem like it's much of a solution to our problems.

I buy some organic stuff though never intentionally. It's just because sometimes they're out of any cheaper options and I do value my health so if it's between having my apples for the week or NOT having them, I'm going to pay a bit more and have them. I still want to eat what I want to eat! I'm kind of a creature of habit, so I rarely say, "oh, they're out of apples, guess I'll buy some blueberries instead." I probably should do that, but I hate shopping, so I go right to what I usually buy and it's like an every-two-months thing for me to vary my routine at all :P

I think it's just because I do so much research into what to eat that I'm usually cautious about varying it much, although when I know I should be eating more of something (blueberries would be a good example actually), I try to adjust.

I think the whole organic versus GMO thing is a big nonsense upper-middle-class white person problem that kind of covers up a much bigger issue, which is that healthy food is freakin' expensive no matter what you buy. Compare buying a bunch of Kraft mac and cheese, cans of soup (not unhealthy usually, but not ideal), cup of noodles, even sugary cereals, chips, and things like that to buying fresh fruit and vegetables and it's no wonder much of the country eats like crap. I had this one (fat) friend with a (fat) wife who said he fed his entire family of 5 on $500/month so he was shocked I spent that much on food almost just for myself. The difference is for me that included things like protein shakes, lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, and other high quality items (even things like almond milk versus dairy milk is a difference in calorie count, environmental impact, and twice the price -- I pay the price because the idea of cow puss and blood is kind of off-putting and the extra calories aren't appreciated) all cost a lot of money. You can eat at McDonalds and be full on $6 maybe but then you go to the grocery store and a small little tray of blueberries is $5! That's a fortune for so little food. That should be almost enough for a meal and instead it's just a handful of blueberries. Stuff like cucumbers are certainly a lot more reasonable at more like $1 per cucumber around here, and that's a good snack, but fruit is prohibitively expensive. I try not to worry about it because if I'm going to spend money on stupid things like seeing a 3-D movie or an IMAX movie for $17, I can afford to spend money on my health, but I certainly see why people of more average means have a tough time eating healthy!