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"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
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Location: Dallas, TX
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By this, I mean (a) having a family member or close friend commit suicide, (b) being the family member or close friend being the victim - not the perpetrator - of a willful murder or clearly unintentional manslaughter. Pardon the redundancy, but I want to make the terms as absolutely clear and brief as reasonably possible. Now to the rest of the post/poll
Any of those three would cause great grief and pain among family, friends, close acquaintances, and even rather distant or long-lost-contact old acquaintances. What prompted this question are two things: 1st, I could easily have been killed about two weeks ago in a car wreck - in which case were I dead, the woman would have been guilty of vehicular manslaughter. 2nd, it just so happens that before this I was/still am reading a bit about the anguish (both quantity and nature of it) of close relatives and friends caused by a close one's suicide vs a close one's natural, or even premature, death.
Here's my view.
I think suicide would be the most devastating of the three. The decision to kill one's self leaves feelings of abandonment, rejection*, and is more likely to cause long-lasting negative consequences for the physical and/or mental health of survivors.
Next would be willful murder (not in self-defense) of that family member / friend. Murder, by definition with "malice aforethought" and accompanied by a "guilty mind", shows contempt for the victim's life. For all this, the loved one's murder would at least lack the voluntary element of self-termination, thus not leading to feelings of rejection and abandonment that suicide would impose on surviving family and friends. Furthermore, a willful murder of that loved one is not as likely to show remorse for the death in and of itself, and what remorse they would have would be only for getting caught, arrested, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. Perhaps they will come to regret the loss of that life for its own sake (or at least the fam & friend's sakes), but there is no assurance they will do so.
Then there is manslaughter. While still very much painful for family and friends, it would at least be both non-voluntary death AND non-intentional on the part of the guilty party. This spares the family and friends the emotional burdens (perhaps physical ones, too) that suicide and murder would impose upon them in addition to the untimely death in and of itself. In addition, unlike the murderer, the one guilty of manslaughter is extremely likely to have genuine strong remorse for the loss of life for its own sake, and for the victim's sake, and the surviving close one's. Last but not least, the guilty party, even after release, will have to live with this burden for the rest of his or her life. The last part cannot be said (or at least not assured) of the murderer.
I look forward to your reactions, questions, and comments.
*This is especially so when it implies the love of family and friends was not "good enough" to keep the suicide (the person, not the action) alive. This in turn implies that the suicide treated that loved one's companionship and love with at least partial contempt/disregard; or that the suicide presumed that the family and friends thought the suicide a drag on their life).
Last edited by Phil75230; 07-05-2012 at 02:09 AM..
Considering the way Jesus died, does it really matter how a person dies? This world has worshiped human sacrifice for thousands of years. In a a master and servant world, just surviving the game of life is a success in and of itself. I think murder would be the worst way to go of those choices you provided. If a person does an elaborate suicide followed by an impressive suicide note, they could go out a hero to the world of the dead.
Probably the most cruel way to go would be a person who is tricked into suicide. It happens more than you would think in a battle in the mind.
One of my favorite quotes by Hemingway, who went out with a shotgun blast to the head after being tortured with shock therapy.
The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.
Ernest Hemingway
For me it depends on the specific situation. How old the person was. If that person had "lived their whole life" or not.
So if it is someone quite old and that person lived a full life - did all the things they wanted to do, then death, no matter how it happens, is not so tragic.
But if it is a young person who has not lived their life, then very tragic!
And the WORST, which really upsets me, is when a young person does something stupid like driving too fast and then gets into a deadly car wreck. I don't need to know that person to get upset. It is senseless. And could have been avoided with education / driver training.
Then there are situations where someone may have a terminal illness and is "miserable". I don't mean other people looking at that person think the person is miserable. Rather the person him or herself would rather not live another day on this earth. In those situations when they die, I think that is what they wanted.
Then another thing which upsets me is when a depressed person does themselves in. And I know that person could have gone to counseling, solved their problems, found a "new life", then gone on to live a long happy life. It is a waste.
Considering the way Jesus died, does it really matter how a person dies? This world has worshiped human sacrifice for thousands of years. In a a master and servant world, just surviving the game of life is a success in and of itself. I think murder would be the worst way to go of those choices you provided. If a person does an elaborate suicide followed by an impressive suicide note, they could go out a hero to the world of the dead.
Probably the most cruel way to go would be a person who is tricked into suicide. It happens more than you would think in a battle in the mind.
One of my favorite quotes by Hemingway, who went out with a shotgun blast to the head after being tortured with shock therapy.
The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.
Ernest Hemingway
that so true!!!! the good, gentle and the brave ............all dying leaving the rest
By this, I mean (a) having a family member or close friend commit suicide, (b) being the family member or close friend being the victim - not the perpetrator - of a willful murder or clearly unintentional manslaughter. Pardon the redundancy, but I want to make the terms as absolutely clear and brief as reasonably possible. Now to the rest of the post/poll
Any of those three would cause great grief and pain among family, friends, close acquaintances, and even rather distant or long-lost-contact old acquaintances. What prompted this question are two things: 1st, I could easily have been killed about two weeks ago in a car wreck - in which case were I dead, the woman would have been guilty of vehicular manslaughter. 2nd, it just so happens that before this I was/still am reading a bit about the anguish (both quantity and nature of it) of close relatives and friends caused by a close one's suicide vs a close one's natural, or even premature, death.
Here's my view.
I think suicide would be the most devastating of the three. The decision to kill one's self leaves feelings of abandonment, rejection*, and is more likely to cause long-lasting negative consequences for the physical and/or mental health of survivors.
Next would be willful murder (not in self-defense) of that family member / friend. Murder, by definition with "malice aforethought" and accompanied by a "guilty mind", shows contempt for the victim's life. For all this, the loved one's murder would at least lack the voluntary element of self-termination, thus not leading to feelings of rejection and abandonment that suicide would impose on surviving family and friends. Furthermore, a willful murder of that loved one is not as likely to show remorse for the death in and of itself, and what remorse they would have would be only for getting caught, arrested, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. Perhaps they will come to regret the loss of that life for its own sake (or at least the fam & friend's sakes), but there is no assurance they will do so.
Then there is manslaughter. While still very much painful for family and friends, it would at least be both non-voluntary death AND non-intentional on the part of the guilty party. This spares the family and friends the emotional burdens (perhaps physical ones, too) that suicide and murder would impose upon them in addition to the untimely death in and of itself. In addition, unlike the murderer, the one guilty of manslaughter is extremely likely to have genuine strong remorse for the loss of life for its own sake, and for the victim's sake, and the surviving close one's. Last but not least, the guilty party, even after release, will have to live with this burden for the rest of his or her life. The last part cannot be said (or at least not assured) of the murderer.
I look forward to your reactions, questions, and comments.
*This is especially so when it implies the love of family and friends was not "good enough" to keep the suicide (the person, not the action) alive. This in turn implies that the suicide treated that loved one's companionship and love with at least partial contempt/disregard; or that the suicide presumed that the family and friends thought the suicide a drag on their life).
murder and manslaughter are in a different league to suicide , if a family member committed suicide , at least i could console myself in the fact that their pain had ended and that they actually made the choice to end their lives , the thought of a family member being murdered is a thousand times worse
Agree with others who have said that murder would be the worst....to have someone's life taken, if that person loved their life. I have a different opinion on suicide that if people are in endless physical or psychological pain, at least they will no longer be in pain and they chose to die, rather than have their life taken from them as is the case with murder or manslaughter.
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