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Some people just have ****ty personalities or messed up things they keep inside, and booze brings it out. It doesn't make them that way, they're already that way. Seeing how someone is when they're drunk is a good way of judging what they're really like deep down.
There are many different types of drinkers out there, and even a few types of non-drinkers.
For alcoholics and perhaps some hard drinkers and maybe even some social drinkers, alcohol is a pathway to a higher state of consciousness. But it doesn't last too long. If the drinker catapults up to Shangri La, how do you think they're gonna act when they come crashing back to earth?
The person who needs to drink to function or can't control the amount once they start has an internal problem. Their behaviour may be wonderful as long as their ducks are in a row or as long as they are getting their way.
Alcoholics have not cornered the market on selfishness, self-seeking, inconsiderate, resentful, dishonest and fearful behaviour., but they have well-honed skills in that area.
Alcoholics can be very exciting to some folks for some reason, just go ask an unrecovered alanon about that little phenomena.
I doubt there is a single answer to the OP's question. Drinking removes filters, so you could argue that in some cases the "ugly drunk" is the person's "true" self. But would YOU be your "true" self without your filters, and would you be a better person without them? Your filters are part of who you are, and you have constructed them for a reason, so I tend to see removing them as a side effect of drinking, not an intended effect. People drink for a lot of reasons, and addiction of varying intensities may or may not be in the mix. I know someone who does not become overtly drunk in the standard "slurred speech and staggering" sense, but there is a noticeable "Shift" in their personality and conversation which you can eventually learn to recognize. As they have gotten older, there is more and more a tendency to emotional impulse control going down the tubes as well, so I suppose they are becoming an "ugly drunk" willing to say hurtful things upon insufficient provocation. Since this person's drinking is shame-driven, I assume that their self-loathing is just coming to the surface and they are projecting it on others. But every drinker is different. Who knows?
There are many different types of drinkers out there, and even a few types of non-drinkers.
For alcoholics and perhaps some hard drinkers and maybe even some social drinkers, alcohol is a pathway to a higher state of consciousness. But it doesn't last too long. If the drinker catapults up to Shangri La, how do you think they're gonna act when they come crashing back to earth?
The person who needs to drink to function or can't control the amount once they start has an internal problem. Their behaviour may be wonderful as long as their ducks are in a row or as long as they are getting their way.
Alcoholics have not cornered the market on selfishness, self-seeking, inconsiderate, resentful, dishonest and fearful behaviour., but they have well-honed skills in that area.
Alcoholics can be very exciting to some folks for some reason, just go ask an unrecovered alanon about that little phenomena.
Haha, I'm a recovered one, though I didn't do it through Al-Anon. I went at first, but at that point I was DONE with my spouse and didn't want ideas and tips on how to live with alcoholism--I just wanted him GONE. I did seek help through a therapist who had a background in relationships and substance abuse, though, and that was helpful.
One thing he said that made a lightbulb go off in my little peabrain was, "B provided you with the crises you need."
He was right. Constantly dealing with the alcoholic's drama and abuse worked very well to keep me from self-examination and working on my own skewed POV on life. Often when a couple does stay together and the alcoholic becomes sober, the marriage or relationship begins to unravel anyway, because the codependent only knows how to deal with an active alcoholic.
It's also why men and women who divorce/leave an alcoholic often go right out and find another one. We know how to live that life. We don't know how to be in a normal relationship.
I know that alcoholics are the only partners available to me, and for that reason, I had to make the difficult decision to never date again. As sad as it can be sometimes to always be alone--and it's not always that bad, just moments that come and go--I can remember how much worse it was to be with someone whose first priority was alcohol and drugs. I chose alone. Life's not as exciting without those constant crises...but that's GOOD.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 12-22-2013 at 04:43 PM..
It's not so much a truth serum, but it's the fact that it lowers your inhibitions to the point that the truth just comes out.
Do not go out for drinks with coworkers you otherwise hate for that reason.
That's also why alcoholics who are going through the "amends" motions of the 12 steps often have trouble getting the people they've called names and to whom they've said horrific, hurtful things to listen to them and accept their amends. The alcoholics often seem puzzled that their olive branch isn't accepted. For one thing, they probably don't even remember half of what they said, but the recipients DO remember. It's much easier for the alcoholic to shrug off their drunken, unremembered behavior as something they didn't really mean, but not so easy for the people to whom it was directed. They know that Mommy screaming, "I wish you never had been born" came from SOMEWHERE inside of Mommy, even though Mommy knows she would never have said such a thing sober.
It's much easier for the alcoholic to shrug off their drunken, unremembered behavior as something they didn't really mean, but not so easy for the people to whom it was directed.
That's not true. Alcoholics suffer gravely for the harm they've done others, usually once they wake up from a drunk. What you're describing are sociopaths and psychopaths. You don't have to be drunk to do this behavior. Blackouts for the alcoholic are often horrific experiences. I know this for a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
They know that Mommy screaming, "I wish you never had been born" came from SOMEWHERE inside of Mommy, even though Mommy knows she would never have said such a thing sober.
There again, mommy don't have to be drunk to be a b!#@#.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
That's also why alcoholics who are going through the "amends" motions of the 12 steps often have trouble getting the people they've called names and to whom they've said horrific, hurtful things to listen to them and accept their amends. The alcoholics often seem puzzled that their olive branch isn't accepted.
No, that's not true either. The alcoholic sweeps off their side of the street as best they can and they come to the amend with a contrite heart. If not, they are not ready to make the amend. Some amends are to just leave the person alone and pray for their peace, happiness, and prosperity. If someone doesn't accept your amend, fine. You've made your approach, made the attempt, it's water under the bridge. If the recipient does NOT forgive... doesn't accept the amend, then they are just pouring acid on their own soul. Forgiveness is freeing, but not the goal here for the alcoholic. It can be icing on the cake though, so to speak.
Prior to the amend for the alcoholic, there is a clause that the person they are making the amend to is forgiven as well. Alcoholics do not corner the harms-done-others' market. In real life, it's a two-way street. Alcoholics are not the Devil and their acquaintances the Snow White Angels. Alcoholics are NOT the original sinners.
That's not true. Alcoholics suffer gravely for the harm they've done others, usually once they wake up from a drunk. What you're describing are sociopaths and psychopaths. You don't have to be drunk to do this behavior. Blackouts for the alcoholic are often horrific experiences. I know this for a fact.
There again, mommy don't have to be drunk to be a b!#@#.
No, that's not true either. The alcoholic sweeps off their side of the street as best they can and they come to the amend with a contrite heart. If not, they are not ready to make the amend. Some amends are to just leave the person alone and pray for their peace, happiness, and prosperity. If someone doesn't accept your amend, fine. You've made your approach, made the attempt, it's water under the bridge. If the recipient does NOT forgive... doesn't accept the amend, then they are just pouring acid on their own soul. Forgiveness is freeing, but not the goal here for the alcoholic. It can be icing on the cake though, so to speak.
Prior to the amend for the alcoholic, there is a clause that the person they are making the amend to is forgiven as well. Alcoholics do not corner the harms-done-others' market. In real life, it's a two-way street. Alcoholics are not the Devil and their acquaintances the Snow White Angels. Alcoholics are NOT the original sinners.
LOL, the bolded is funny and certainly true, but that's besides the point and not the topic of this thread. We are talking about people who DO drink.
Sorry, but I don't see how blackouts are as "horrific" for the drunk who doesn't remember anything and the spouse or friend whose face he has beaten in or who he has maimed in a car accident or even the child to whom he has hurled terrible, hurtful words. My friend's husband even told her one day, "Well, I can't really feel bad about what I did in a blackout since I don't remember anyway."
I don't necessarily agree that alcoholics make their amends with a contrite heart. I'm sure some do. I hope some do. I've never witnessed that with the alcoholics and addicts I've known, but I haven't known every addict in the world. And I have known recovered people who, after many years, moved ahead into maturity and established adult-like relationships with others. It takes time. Someone who has been drinking for 20 years and wreaking havoc left and right isn't suddenly going to develop a sense of responsibility to society after three months of sobriety, sorry.
Never said alcoholics are the devil and everyone else is innocent--and you KNOW that, but the fact remains that alcoholics do terrible harm to others, and there is definitely a personality type that goes with the alcoholic. They are not sociopaths, but they also often have a personality issue wherein they just don't get it that their behavior affects others, or they minimize the impact they have on others. I've seen this continue even after the alcoholic gets sober. Alcoholism is more than just drinking. There is a "type" of personality that goes along with alcoholism.
But, (in my opinion, of course), they don't get a pass on treating people badly just because they are alcoholics. I know you and I disagree on this because you see alcoholics as victims and helpless, and I do not.
It has occurred to me that maybe alcoholic treatment won't work if alcoholics had to actually face up to what they have done--if the alcoholic began to feel the pain of shame and regret too early in their recovery, they might just give up and drink again and that wouldn't be a good outcome.
I know you and I disagree on this because you see alcoholics as victims and helpless, and I do not.
That's just not true. I've never ever considered the alcoholic to be the victim.
We're so far apart on that statement that I refuse to argue this with you any more. Your previous points are drama at best and are of no use to me as you seem to have a skewed view of alcoholics and society at large.
You're in the majority with that too.
I have experience being an alcoholic and you don't. Alcoholics are not of the subset of sociopath period. You seem to know a lot of sociopaths who drink/drank.
That's just not true. I've never ever considered the alcoholic to be the victim.
We're so far apart on that statement that I refuse to argue this with you any more. Your previous points are drama at best and are of no use to me as you seem to have a skewed view of alcoholics and society at large.
You're in the majority with that too.
I have experience being an alcoholic and you don't. Alcoholics are not of the subset of sociopath period. You seem to know a lot of sociopaths who drink/drank.
As I've said already, I don't think alcoholic are sociopaths. I'm unclear as to why you keep repeating that. They do, however, have certain characteristics--in general--that include not being able to see the way their behavior affects others the way non-alcoholics do. Not in earthshattering ways like a sociopath who could they knife someone and then go out to lunch, but in everyday interactions. More like thoughtlessness, and yes, non-alcoholics can be thoughtless, too, but it's a particularly common trait in alcoholics. This is my own observation and that of others I know who have lived with/loved/been related to alcoholics. Yes, you have experience being an alcoholic. That does not exactly make you the best judge therefore of what an alcoholic is like as a person. We don't see ourselves as others see us--that's an overall HUMAN trait.
Dismissing someone else's experiences as nothing but 'drama' sounds awfully familiar, too.
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