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Yeah, who serves as anti-depressants for the invisible women who get left out of the social whirl?
When you think about it, expecting a person to act as your anti depressant places a ridiculous amount of responsibility for your mental well being on another person. What personality type of woman wants to be an anti depressant for a guy who needs anti depressants? People are not medications. Having someone around doesn't fix depression. This whole line of thought is crazy.
Men still are supposed to approach. Then it's looks motivating them (along with signals sent their way, which I don't think women do as well as they used to). Approaching without attraction won't work out well - women want to be appreciated aesthetically. The typical guy doesn't seem to care much whether the woman he finds attractive is much into him physically. Short answer is women shouldn't whine if they are unwanted and particularly fat. Easier to fix than facial ugliness (usually) or male shortness. Few people are going to show fat, lonely men any sympathy. I don't hate individual women for their heft, but I do have a problem with slimmer women who think they're hot stuff simply because they aren't fat and don't cultivate inner qualities and generally don't match with the quieter men who value depth. That is an unfortunate side effect of the obesity epidemic.
People have made a gap in gender interactions with that stupid term "approach". When I was in my teens and early 20s, people said "pick up", and that was much better because now with that stupid term "approach" a lot of people think that simply talking to the opposite gender means sexual interest.
I used to feel comfortable talking to females I never met before, but after a lot of transplants moved into the area I live in, and around the time I started to hear people describe picking up as "approach", I started having experiences of women acting like they thought I was trying to pick them up. I had to stop starting conversations with strangers because of it.
Prior to about the mid 90s, here in the SF bay area it was common for strangers, including opposite sexes, to just talk to each other without the discomfort of people thinking the conversation was a pick up tactic. It took more than simply walking up and talking to someone for them to think it's a stupid pick up attempt.
The term "approach" should be buried and peed on to save society.
I forgot to mention, without that unneeded pressure of interaction with strangers that the term "approach" brings, there's a better chance of people getting together even if they aren't initially attracted to each others looks. The propinquity effect can bring them together.
Men still are supposed to approach. Then it's looks motivating them (along with signals sent their way, which I don't think women do as well as they used to). Approaching without attraction won't work out well - women want to be appreciated aesthetically. The typical guy doesn't seem to care much whether the woman he finds attractive is much into him physically. Short answer is women shouldn't whine if they are unwanted and particularly fat. Easier to fix than facial ugliness (usually) or male shortness. Few people are going to show fat, lonely men any sympathy. I don't hate individual women for their heft, but I do have a problem with slimmer women who think they're hot stuff simply because they aren't fat and don't cultivate inner qualities and generally don't match with the quieter men who value depth. That is an unfortunate side effect of the obesity epidemic.
I notice that goodheathen never directly addresses me on some of the things I bring up, and deftly avoids or ignores main points, so if one of you others could pin him on some of this, it would be appreciated.
Women shouldn't 'whine' for being invisible, but here we have men whining *and* blaming women and demanding women take action? True, a less attractive woman will get less attention, and she knos this and it's within her control to change it... but not all women want to, or will, and if they don't, they are not 'resposible' for men's 'suffering', and men have no right to demand anything from them---which some men do, and good heathen has on this thread. Furthermore, a lot of female 'whining' is not due to merely being overlooked, but outright hostility, rudeness, cruelty from men *to* women who have failed in their *duty* to make themselves more attractive. So not only is society overlooking the invisible women, these men are hating them, often cruel to them, and then turning around and blaming these self-same *women* for their (the men's) 'unhappiness'. So it's like, 'Oh poor me, these women I hate and insult are not changing themselves quick enough so I can find them 'datable' and now I'm lonely-- why won't these women ( who are hated, mistreated, and blamed) busy 'fixing' themselves for my benefit?"
Really? You have to ask that? And really? You blame women for being too quick to overlook and you treat many of them like this or feel no sympathy when others do? Do a Google search for 'fat shaming week' and then try to dredge up sympathy for these poor, lonely, 'misunderstood' men who demand everyone fix life for them.
Men still are supposed to approach. Then it's looks motivating them (along with signals sent their way, which I don't think women do as well as they used to). Approaching without attraction won't work out well - women want to be appreciated aesthetically. The typical guy doesn't seem to care much whether the woman he finds attractive is much into him physically. Short answer is women shouldn't whine if they are unwanted and particularly fat. Easier to fix than facial ugliness (usually) or male shortness. Few people are going to show fat, lonely men any sympathy. I don't hate individual women for their heft, but I do have a problem with slimmer women who think they're hot stuff simply because they aren't fat and don't cultivate inner qualities and generally don't match with the quieter men who value depth. That is an unfortunate side effect of the obesity epidemic.
See, but the bolded is where we were around page 80. Women often don't want a man desperately beneath them in looks, men always act like they don't think they are, women do not see this as a positive and/or get "worn down" by persistence. They simply want to know how long they have to keep that fixed polite smile plastered on their face, and how frustrating it is that politeness dictates they can't say, Dude, you're looking at me so clearly your eyes work, did you look in a mirror before you made the determination that I'd be receptive to your advances?
Also, here's a collation of research points (not that we needed it, it's simply common sense, as you would say, since everybody beyond the age of 20 probably knows that men have more muscle than fat, and are larger in general so burn more calories from the same amount of physical exertion) but: It's easier for a man to lose weight than it is for a woman.
Clearly I don't mean morbidly obese women (or men), as those people once they get started will lose weight faster than the counterparts with less-to-lose. But clearly you are either not encountering or actively ignoring those men who join discussions like "do you mind belly fat on a woman?" and make no distinction whether they're talking about pregnancy-belly bloat, or a deposit the size of 1-2 breadsticks (let alone what they look like when they look in a mirror): "Nope, I want no fat on your tum, fatty! Taut and toned like Brooklyn Decker or it's no go!"
Yeah, who serves as anti-depressants for the invisible women who get left out of the social whirl?
Lol but a lot of us like it this way...no holding anyone's hair while they puke, no hangovers, no messy breakups, no heartache, no STD checks, no pregnancy scares, etc etc. The list goes on and on.
It seems like goodheathen always expects the women to do the work; men won't, because they won't. So it's her "fault." His unhappiness is on her head. If she's invisible for being too ugly, too fat, or whatever (I notice that fat *really* bothers him, he always makes sure to mention it) then not only is she likely suffering from low self esteem due to that, now he wants her to feel the pressure of 'responsibility' for failing lonely men by being the way she is, which 'forces' them to ignore her, treat her as invisible, and possibly treat her badly in person. So not only is she bringing on her own invisibility by not being attractive, but she deserves scorn for being responsible for the 'suffering' of those who hate her as she is!
This is so bizarre. I can't make this stuff up.
Bizarre is right! My money is on he's a troll. Or an adolescent. There is NO way he could be this clueless about society. It's like he doesn't realize that women are like, human beings who actually exist.
Me three (well, not the modeling part I grant you), but always been that “what a beautiful child”/strangers, female natch, coming up to me on the street and saying they have a great guy who likes just “my type” (who of course is in another state, lol). 2 weeks ago a kid of barely fourteen begged me to let him touch my hair on the subway platform, so I’m also assuming even at early 40s I’ve still “got it” to some extent objectively.
And I know it’s easy to say “boo-hoo, cry me a river!” about attractive people, especially if you have been burdened with the label of “unattractive”, but physical pulchritude is nothing more than a tool in the human arsenal. I get no particular rush out of looking at myself in a mirror, never have unless I was going onstage for an audience and knew I'd be "on display", and if I did so in the ordinary course, you’d probably be alarmed to “know” "Miss Kitty Narcissus". Accumulating interested and covetous looks is no prize; if it doesn’t equal an approach or relationship, I might as well look like Betsey Ross. Finding a good and responsive person at the end of those looks, is the trick. After the high school years are done, almost nobody is hurtfully grimacing at the sight of the “unattractive”, which rarely equals “unsightly” anyway, outside of some mass snotty popular teen hysteria.
Unless you're a beautiful EXtrovert anyway, then I believe the world is probably your oyster.
I think you make very good points, and I don't think you intend to minimize the experience of people who aren't good looking, but I think the comment I bolded would be more complete with an addendum.
Those high school years can, and often do leave some scarring for people all along the looks spectrum over a variety of things. Those can be tough years for most of us. For me, the scars are always there and the came from comments about and reactions to my appearance. I think I cope well now, but that has been a long struggle, and 4 decades after high school I have to translate my experience from the language I learned then into the present. From "awkward and ugly guy" to "interesting or sometimes pleasant looking guy".
I still, somewhere in my head, expect to be rebuffed or picked on, even though that almost never happens, and never directly. But especially with new people, the 14 year old still in me somewhere is waiting for that emotional slap in the face, and it takes energy to remind myself that those days are long over. I do remind myself, I take a deep breath, and then it's really OK, but I have moments when I wonder what it would be like to have my "native language" be an assumption I'd be welcomed and liked?
I was very attractive when I was younger. As a child, I was asked to model as well, and people always described me as good looking.
I also had girls approaching me, which is kind of an abnormality in the male-female dating scene. I always was too shy to reciprocate.
I kind of regret my past, but knowing how impulsive I used to be, I probably would have jumped into something that wouldn't have been good for me.
omg, you sound like the man I've always been looking for lol.
I stayed out of it because I didn't trust/like the ones who pursued me (I came from a bit of a rough background and worried about the possibilities) and was too shy myself to show interest myself or ask anyone out. Other times I didn't think guys I liked, who may have liked me, could like me. Yet for all my resulting loneliness.. the aggressiveness and superficiality of the New York dating scene was too hideous to me. I just couldn't pretend to agree with how people thought.
Accumulating interested and covetous looks is no prize; if it doesn’t equal an approach or relationship, I might as well look like Betsey Ross
Yes= it can be surprising how very little good looks matter in the end.
Unless you're a beautiful EXtrovert anyway, then I believe the world is probably your oyster.
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^^^ This.
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