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As for being a disorder? As I understand it, the psychology community moved away from defining disorder as (basically) "failure to meet society's normative expectations in any matter (whether "norm" in a moral sense or a "merely expectation" one - like being heterosexual, cisgendered, etc.). Now, they do not label something a disorder unless that person is distressed by the alleged disordered thing itself.
That definition still falls short, IMO. F.ex. most serial killers are not distressed by their torture-murders in and of themselves. Yet, I can't see how they could qualify under the current definition of disorder. For that reason, I see disorder more on the lines of "deliberately initiating acts - with intent of malice or consciously callous indifference - that hurt, harm, or degrade others". IMO, under that definition, it would simutaneously allow us to disqualify homosexuality and gender dysphoria as "disorders" yet still permit us to call torture-murder a disorder. Yes, the definition probably still leaves much to be desired, but I still find it more plausible than merely causing personal distress.
FWIW, the current definition of a mental disorder:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSM-5
"A mental disorder is a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities. An expectable or culturally approved response to a common stressor or loss, such as the death of a loved one, is not a mental disorder. Socially deviant behavior (e.g., political, religious, or sexual) and conflicts that are primarily between the individual and society are not mental disorders unless the deviance or conflict results from a dysfunction in the individual, as described above."
Recently, I've been accused of being a psychopath several times. This is not too terribly troublesome in and of itself; as I'm a relatively confident person. Recently, after one of my buddies told me in rather quick succession that I was heartless, cold hearted, and manipulative; I decided to ask my closest friend and soon to be roommate if he thought I was a psychopath. His immediate response was "Yes."
So, this is becoming an interesting thing to contemplate. Am I a psychopath?
I'm not entirely sure it would bother me or change the way I live if I was.
Here's how I stack things up when trying to analyze this question:
GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH - I think I can safely say I think very highly of myself. The weird thing is I tell myself "No, you're not like them. Your thoughts are justified because you really are as great as you think." Which of course is reaffirmed when I talk to other people who think they're intelligent.
CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS - I hesitate to attribute this to myself. I don't consider myself very manipulative; but it seems that other people readily attribute this to me, so there it is. I think it's a misunderstanding on their part in that in some cases I know what's best for them better than they do.
SHALLOW AFFECT - This is an interesting point of conversation to me. I consider myself a deep person in some aspects. I can really care about someone. At the end of the day though, I draw what I believe to be an important distinction between what's best for them and what's best for profitability, humanity or whatever else I feel is important in the instant. One particular case that was most shocking to me was the death of my uncle. I didn't care too terribly much. I understood that my parents were upset and my brothers were crying, but when it came down to it I just felt like "He's dead. Move on." Which, looking back is kind of terrible. I think witnessing myself act in this way and unable to sympathize with what those around me were feeling was really bizarre.
CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY - I think I do have empathy to a degree, definitely not a lack of empathy entirely. There comes a point where there's no room for empathy.
IMPULSIVITY - Can't necessarily share events leading to this conclusion.
There are other points listed that may describe me that I'd prefer not to discuss. So I have a question, if I was a psychopath, does it matter? Is it a bad thing? It has a pretty negative connotation, but I really like the way I think and I would not ask for anything different... Should I be concerned or just continue about life like regular?
Everyone has a level of psycopathy, men usually higher than women. It doesn't mean you are John Wayne Gacy but it does mean that you will probably step on people who get in your way...in other words, you will probably be good to go in the corporate world. You will also have to work on trying to temper it so people aren't put off by you. You may have to work at it forever, but the world is so PC now that all of life seems to be one big acting gig anyway.
Hmm, internet diagnostics. Yeah, I've taken psychcentrals psychopathy test (here) and scored pretty well (er... bad?) I've aced their narcissism test (37/40) as well. I thought that was a poorly made test (granted, I'm no psychologist) because it seemed a good number of their questions were more so about your self confidence and how comfortable you are presenting and talking in a group than whether you have some sort of erotic love for yourself.
I've never given much weight to internet diagnostics.
In any case, should I be a psychopath, is there some sort of negative repercussions if I were to not seeking therapy?
Something else that interests me, is this question:
You know how people say a crazy person wouldn't question their sanity? Would a psychopath wonder or care if they were a psychopath?
Not sure if either of these things are true, but it does cross my mind now and then.
Narcissism isn't "some sort of erotic love for yourself". I know Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) very well. It's a spectrum, and my ex-husband is at the extreme end. NPD and psychopathy are often closely tied and can overlap.
As others have said, if you are consistently scoring high on these tests and, more importantly, people that know you are saying "yes" (and clearly you lack understanding on what the tests mean), seek help.
What is the worst that can happen if you aren't? You go and they say you are completely fine. After you go, let us know if your assessments were right. My guess is that they were.
Several people have told me they inexplicably don't like me similarly to how you just have; and what I've noticed every time is that this is not a person I would care to dedicate my time to in any case.
OP, what kind of people DO you get along well with? How do they feel about you? Who are the people saying you're a psychopath? Are these people you count as "friends"? A little clarification there might be helpful.
P.S. I still don't think that not crying about your uncle's death means you're unfeeling or potentially psychopathic. In my family, we had several deaths of close relatives in about a 3-year time; that generation kind of checked out in a cluster. Nobody cried, except the spouses left behind. After a certain age, especially once people get into their 90's or close to it, you expect them to die. It's not a surprise. People have plenty of time to grieve and/or remember the good times, and spend time with them well in advance of their passing. I don't see an issue here.
It's more about: do you make friends with people mainly in order to use them, or do you end up using your friends and manipulating them for your own satisfaction, ego-strokes, or whatever? Do you have genuine warm-and-fuzzy feelings toward your friends? And family? If you feel more cold about your relationships, that could be an indication.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-19-2015 at 02:30 PM..
If you think you are so great, does that mean you are also smarter than most others?
If you are wrong in something, do you accept responsibility or do you find excuses?
Do you think you look great and how so? Do you put a lot of effort in your appearance like working out, nice hair cut, clothes ...?
My ex looks below average, has hardly any education, no empathy but thinks he can have pretty women (therefore he is single forever), is mad at the world for not throwing a great job at him, wonders why he never gets promoted (he is lazy) and thinks normal weight women are fat, while he has a double chin and beer belly. He is smart though. Just no sense for reality and I always wonder what is going on in his head.
Are you reaching a lot in life, are ambitious and have a reason to think you are super awesome or are you delusional as well? No offense, just being curious.
I do believe I am gifted in the ability to think analytically where most are not. Most people immediately jump to what they "feel" is right instead of what is objectively the most beneficial decision or the best answer.
From recent cases where I was wrong, I believe I respond responsibly. I normally wait a day to cool down, then talk to the person to acknowledge that they were correct or that I was wrong.
I do not think I look great. I don't think I'm appalling, but I have a very realistic view of my physical appearance and capabilities.
As far as clothes go, I do generally try to get nice stuff, a nice watch, nice ring, nice hat, nice jacket etc. etc. But I do it mostly because I have a mindset of "if you're gonna spend money on something, you should want it enough to put effort towards it."
I don't think your description of your ex describes me at all; and I can definitely see how he might become an "ex." I have friends with those extremely unrealistic views and I just have to shake my head. When you're living in your parents basement without ever being able to hold a job longer than 2 weeks, you do not get the right to call a girl ugly because she doesn't have double D breasts and blond hair. But, I digress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicturtle
Everyone has a level of psycopathy, men usually higher than women. It doesn't mean you are John Wayne Gacy but it does mean that you will probably step on people who get in your way...in other words, you will probably be good to go in the corporate world. You will also have to work on trying to temper it so people aren't put off by you. You may have to work at it forever, but the world is so PC now that all of life seems to be one big acting gig anyway.
Well, that's where I do intend to go eventually. But, I'm starting to think I must have overstated things in my first post or people just here the word psychopath and run with it.
After a few people who are much more familiar with psychology than me corrected a few of my ideas of what a "psychopath" is, I don't believe that it describes me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName14289
Narcissism isn't "some sort of erotic love for yourself". I know Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) very well. It's a spectrum, and my ex-husband is at the extreme end. NPD and psychopathy are often closely tied and can overlap.
As others have said, if you are consistently scoring high on these tests and, more importantly, people that know you are saying "yes" (and clearly you lack understanding on what the tests mean), seek help.
What is the worst that can happen if you aren't? You go and they say you are completely fine. After you go, let us know if your assessments were right. My guess is that they were.
I'm sorry that I'm unfamiliar with that. I do recall looking up Narcissism and seeing:
Narcissism:
1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.
2. Psychoanalysis. erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.
I clearly lack the understanding on what tests mean? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that online diagnostics were meant to be taken so seriously. I guess that's why they put that little note at the end:
Quote:
You should not take this as a diagnosis of any sort, or a recommendation for treatment.
Or maybe I am misinterpreting it, and it truly means "YOU'RE MENTALLY ILL!!! SEEK HELP ASAP!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony
Could you ask your friends for some examples on what you have done that was manipulative?
lol, yeah you know? I think I will. I have no clue what I did that was so manipulative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
Eh, they may be more sensitive, or more outwardly emotive than you. But being less sensitive and/or less emotive isn't in and of itself an indicator of abnormality. These things exist within a range. Some people cry at Budweiser's Superbowl commercials and Hallmark Hall of Fame movies. Others don't cry even in the face of tragic loss. Did you CARE that your uncle had died? Did you think to yourself, "Thank God he's gone," or feel glee over it? If not, I wouldn't read too much into it.
Yeah, you're probably right. I wasn't upset, but definitely not gleeful. That'd be rather odd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
OP, what kind of people DO you get along well with? How do they feel about you? Who are the people saying you're a psychopath? Are these people you count as "friends"? A little clarification there might be helpful.
P.S. I still don't think that not crying about your uncle's death means you're unfeeling or potentially psychopathic. In my family, we had several deaths of close relatives in about a 3-year time; that generation kind of checked out in a cluster. Nobody cried, except the spouses left behind. After a certain age, especially once people get into their 90's or close to it, you expect them to die. It's not a surprise. People have plenty of time to grieve and/or remember the good times, and spend time with them well in advance of their passing. I don't see an issue here.
It's more about: do you make friends with people mainly in order to use them, or do you end up using your friends and manipulating them for your own satisfaction, ego-strokes, or whatever? Do you have genuine warm-and-fuzzy feelings toward your friends? And family? If you feel more cold about your relationships, that could be an indication.
Intelligent people and emotionally unstable people. I find that emotionally unstable people tend to gravitate towards me, which is rather weird; but doesn't bother me too much.
If I were to describe my friends in a nutshell: Rational, intelligent, open minded. The people I really clash with are generally the "cool kids" or the professional victims. Probably in part because I could really care less about treating them specially, because there's nothing special about wearing all nike brand clothes and the thought process that everything should be handed to you because you're black or female.
That uncle thing was an anecdote. It's just a specific supporting example.
I just want to reiterate, I do not think I'm a psychopath.
I'm sorry that I'm unfamiliar with that. I do recall looking up Narcissism and seeing:
Narcissism:
1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.
2. Psychoanalysis. erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.
That ^^^ is the definition of narcissism, but Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a bit different:
I know the difference. Believe me, I wish I did not. Narcissism is at the bottom of the scale. I did say it was a scale, didn't I?
The OP is mentioning being a possible psychopath and then mentioned narcissism. Most Psychopaths also have NPD. Meaning, they are at the extreme end of the narcissism scale and have full blown NPD. Everyone has a degree of narcissism in them. Everyone. The question is, where do you fall on the scale? Psychopaths are usually at the very end and in the NPD range.
I just want to reiterate, I do not think I'm a psychopath.
None do. Same with NPD. How about you let someone with a PhD be the judge of that? That's the only way you'll find out. But seems to me you don't really want to know, or you already would have went.
That is actually very typical of the condition. Most won't go more than a handful of sessions because part of their issue is that they never think anything is wrong with them. That is why it's one of the few disorders that is almost completely impossible to treat. I was essentially told to write off my ex-hb because there is nothing science or the medical field can do for him (since he was at the extreme end of the NPD scale). Even if he did go to therapy, it would take sometimes a year or more before just a tiny rare fraction might even believe they have a problem. And only then can they begin to work on it, which would take additional years, if they stayed with it until the end. But so few do, that they say it essentially can't be done. Some docs (with older schools of thoughts) might disagree with that, depending on their philosophy (and eagerness to take your money), but I'd still be curious to learn whether you are. Well, I already know the answer, but I'd be interested to see your reaction to it.
But I know you won't go, so that's that, I guess. I think you just like talking about it and yourself more than actually learning the answer. Such is life. It goes with the territory of your condition. I don't mean any of this in a harsh way, just in a matter-of-fact way. I married someone with NPD and a mix of psychopathic behavior. And then I quickly divorced him (and went to a lot of therapy to make sure I never made that mistake again).
I know the difference. Believe me, I wish I did not. Narcissism is at the bottom of the scale. I did say it was a scale, didn't I?
The OP is mentioning being a possible psychopath and then mentioned narcissism. Most Psychopaths also have NPD. Meaning, they are at the extreme end of the narcissism scale and have full blown NPD. Everyone has a degree of narcissism in them. Everyone. The question is, where do you fall on the scale? Psychopaths are usually at the very end and in the NPD range.
My apologies. I thought I was the first one to mention NPD, so I incorrectly assumed you were responding to my post.
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