Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That expression doesn't sit right with me. Usually people who are low vibration/at rock bottom, are kind of crazy, abusive and do bad things (like alcoholism, druggies, can't hold a job, etc.) say messed up shizz like that. They also do not want to work for said loyalty, respect, trust or love, they don't just expect it they demand it. That itself is an abuse of power.
In a way, it's like they are saying they could care less if you love them or not, they just want you to be by their side despite what kind of person (or monster) they really are...I think in a way it may also enable enabling (if that makes any sense) ex. because i'm loyal i have to stay by my boyfriends side even though he stays up drinking all night and verbally abuses me. he needs me more than i need him, so i have to stay with him.
Ok, I'm 54 years old and it occurred to me the other day when a particularly difficult family member told me this, that the only people I've ever heard say this are people who expect to be able to verbally, emotionally, and/or physically abuse others and then expect those same people to "remain loyal" to them.
In other words, what it sounds like to me is, "I expect you to let me treat you any crap way I want and still be there for me."
Your thoughts?
One thing I have learned is that its not wise to let others dictate how you feel or how you act, as in how you display loyalty for one thing. Also, how you react to other family members abusiveness.
For example, my father can be quite verbally abusive. He's not always that way, but you never know when it will pop up. And, he seems to have a fondness for directing it towards me, because in the past I would fight back, which of course just allowed him to amp up his abusiveness. My mother just pouts and my sisters cry which makes him feel bad. I am a good match for him, because of course I learned at his knee as the oldest child and can slash him to ribbons if I decide to.
The difference between us is that I realized it wasn't a healthy way to approach life and I have had lots of therapy which is of course unheard of for his generation.
The most effective thing is to ignore him and walk away from him.
Loyalty is important to me. I define loyalty as being there when you need me. So, if he ended up at the ER, I'm there. If he becomes abusive, I ignore him and focus on his medical needs. Doesn't mean I have to sit and chat with him while he is focused on being abusive; I can monitor his medical needs from the waiting room.
It helps to understand where a persons abusiveness comes from. I know his comes from being raised by an alcoholic father in a chaotic family situation. He has overcome it as much as he can without professional help.
That's just one example. In general, I try to remember that people are doing the best they can. If they could do better, most of them would.
All I can do is control what I do. I try to let go of expectations of what other people will do and focus on what I want to do and who I want to be. If other people surprise me by being good people from time to time so much the better.
Without knowing the specifics, not sure if that helps.
One thing I have learned is that its not wise to let others dictate how you feel or how you act, as in how you display loyalty for one thing. Also, how you react to other family members abusiveness.
For example, my father can be quite verbally abusive. He's not always that way, but you never know when it will pop up. And, he seems to have a fondness for directing it towards me, because in the past I would fight back, which of course just allowed him to amp up his abusiveness. My mother just pouts and my sisters cry which makes him feel bad. I am a good match for him, because of course I learned at his knee as the oldest child and can slash him to ribbons if I decide to.
The difference between us is that I realized it wasn't a healthy way to approach life and I have had lots of therapy which is of course unheard of for his generation.
The most effective thing is to ignore him and walk away from him.
Loyalty is important to me. I define loyalty as being there when you need me. So, if he ended up at the ER, I'm there. If he becomes abusive, I ignore him and focus on his medical needs. Doesn't mean I have to sit and chat with him while he is focused on being abusive; I can monitor his medical needs from the waiting room.
It helps to understand where a persons abusiveness comes from. I know his comes from being raised by an alcoholic father in a chaotic family situation. He has overcome it as much as he can without professional help.
That's just one example. In general, I try to remember that people are doing the best they can. If they could do better, most of them would.
All I can do is control what I do. I try to let go of expectations of what other people will do and focus on what I want to do and who I want to be. If other people surprise me by being good people from time to time so much the better.
Without knowing the specifics, not sure if that helps.
I can't get on board with putting up with someone's abuse if their excuse is good enough.
I can understand where it's coming from, but not put up with it. Once you're an adult, you own your own behavior. I don't care why you behave the way you do. You need to behave in a decent way if you're going to have me around. Go talk to your therapist about your past, but this is not an excuse contest. I don't care why anyone behaves badly to me. I will call them out on their behavior and not put up with it, if it's unreasonable.
Unfortunately, the only people who would put up with a good excuse, is someone with a victim mentality, who probably came from an abusive past. These are the battered women out there. But he doesn't really mean it, but it's not his fault because he came from an abusive home...
I can't get on board with putting up with someone's abuse if their excuse is good enough.
I can understand where it's coming from, but not put up with it. Once you're an adult, you own your own behavior. I don't care why you behave the way you do. You need to behave in a decent way if you're going to have me around. Go talk to your therapist about your past, but this is not an excuse contest. I don't care why anyone behaves badly to me. I will call them out on their behavior and not put up with it, if it's unreasonable.
Unfortunately, the only people who would put up with a good excuse, is someone with a victim mentality, who probably came from an abusive past. These are the battered women out there. But he doesn't really mean it, but it's not his fault because he came from an abusive home...
It's so sad. But not acceptable.
I think you misunderstood me. Ignoring a fathers verbal abusiveness on occasion rather than talking back to it is not the same as living with an abusive husband day in and day out.
I don't have a victim mentality. Choosing not to engage with my father when he is abusive is not a victim mentality. Victim mentality was when I let him engage me lol.
I have no need to "call my father out on his behavior". I recognize it for what it is and there is no point in attempting to engage in rational convo with someone who is behaving irrationally. Why would I go there? To prove what? I don't need to prove to my father anything or to myself anything?
This is my point. His abusiveness does not dictate my behavior. I am free of his abusiveness. He abuses. I ignore. He does not dictate what I do.
I think you misunderstood me. Ignoring a fathers verbal abusiveness on occasion rather than talking back to it is not the same as living with an abusive husband day in and day out.
I don't have a victim mentality. Choosing not to engage with my father when he is abusive is not a victim mentality. Victim mentality was when I let him engage me lol.
I have no need to "call my father out on his behavior". I recognize it for what it is and there is no point in attempting to engage in rational convo with someone who is behaving irrationally. Why would I go there? To prove what? I don't need to prove to my father anything or to myself anything?
This is my point. His abusiveness does not dictate my behavior. I am free of his abusiveness. He abuses. I ignore. He does not dictate what I do.
Well, the difference between you and me is: He abuses, I walk away. For good.
Putting up with abuse is being a victim in my opinion.
I am loyal beyond necessary. There in comes the boundaries.
Loyalty and trust go hand in hand. But not Hand smacking bodies or hearts.
My aunt who no longer has a mouth filter can say rather hurtful things...I love her dearly though , and learned that is HER way to keep people at bay. Its a protection for her. I don't allow her to decide my self worth , and from that I can trust that she will every so often say a hurtful thing and I will let it slide. Why? Because there will come a day ...that I will deeply miss her....and I will deeply regret allowing her off the cuff remarks to cloud and destroy some good moments that we have had.
I cannot change her. I can though ask her to tone it down, rephrase it or in some instances ask her to regard feelings. After that its on her to own it.
For as much as she has her "moments" of discontent...I also know she has had sorrow beyond compare and deserves to know that someone still will be there for her...
Empathy goes along way sometimes.....
I can't get on board with putting up with someone's abuse if their excuse is good enough.
I can understand where it's coming from, but not put up with it. Once you're an adult, you own your own behavior. I don't care why you behave the way you do. You need to behave in a decent way if you're going to have me around. Go talk to your therapist about your past, but this is not an excuse contest. I don't care why anyone behaves badly to me. I will call them out on their behavior and not put up with it, if it's unreasonable.
Unfortunately, the only people who would put up with a good excuse, is someone with a victim mentality, who probably came from an abusive past. These are the battered women out there. But he doesn't really mean it, but it's not his fault because he came from an abusive home...
My mother was verbally and emotionally abusive to me and added physical abuse to that list with my oldest brother (and occasionally to me). Now, she had a totally jacked up childhood. Plus we found out much later (when she was in her fifties) that she is bipolar (even though I always knew, from early childhood, that SOMETHING was wrong with her). Add to that my frustration and sense of betrayal or abandonment because my dad didn't put a stop to it when I knew he should have been protecting his kids rather than making excuses for his wife.
Anyway, it took me til I was in my mid thirties to figure out all this and deal with it via therapy. Meanwhile I had recreated the dynamics I was familiar with - an abusive spouse and me making excuses for his behavior. The only good thing I can say about that marriage is that my children did come from it, and at least he was gone a lot with his job so I didn't have to put up with his BS all the time. But eventually I realized what I was doing (raising kids in the same environment) and I got out, and got counseling, and got my head together.
Then I put boundaries in place with my parents - after confronting them. To my dad's credit, he owned his fault in the situation and was very, VERY apologetic - and in a way I think it was a relief to him to get it all out in the open and discuss it. It helped HIM put down some boundaries with my mom as well, including (eventually) demanding that she stay on meds - which make a huge difference in her life.
My mom was more of a challenge. Let's just say that though she is much better via meds, she still has her moments. But she knows I will just get up and walk out - which I've done many times in the past - or just say, "OK Mom, you overstepped it there, so I'm getting off the phone like I told you I would." And then I just hang up. But over the years, I've had to do that less and less.
So I've learned to be able to incorporate her into my life - and we even enjoy each other's company pretty often now - but I also learned how to establish and maintain boundaries.
The difficult person in my life right now is my oldest son, who unfortunately is acting a lot like his dad right now. And that's who I first heard the "loyalty" idea from, and now I'm hearing it from my son. I have news for him - love does not include putting up with disrespect and ridiculous behavior.
You'd think he'd know how serious I am because of how I dealt with his father, but apparently he's going to have to learn the hard way. What a pity.
When someone says that they want "unconditional" love, run! "Unconditional" love means they want a free pass and a doormat.
Loyalty? If they are requesting that, it most likely mean they have had problems in the past, run!
And, don't suggest a dog!!! I have seen how these people use dogs. If dogs deserve better, don't you?
Sociopathy is on the rise. Learn about it and avoid it!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
