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What do you think causes such disparities in agency and drive?
I think it is 100% mentality. Necessity, fear, and pain is at the bottom, driving most everyone at the basic form. At the top are the risky advantageous, dreamers that get insanely far in life and have passion for the game and/ or their work. I have to disagree that it is hereditary, as I have seen many fathers with worthless sons and vis versa. I can understand to a degree that hereditary depression and mental illness can imped drive. However, I can point out many examples of famous people with mental illnesses and depression that have made it much further than healthy individuals.
And then some people have no drive for themselves, but for their spouse or kids, they're driven to succeed at all costs.
Life is a learning experience as well. If you start with drive and then continue to face failure after failure, especially if things happen that are beyond your control like being laid off or having traumatic life events, after a while you just quit trying. No rat is going to keep going for the cheese when he gets shocked on the nose every time he sniffs at it. If life keeps handing you lemons and you can't afford the sugar to make lemonade, you learn to quit trying so hard.
Sometimes the lack of a drive is just a different kind of drive, too. If you're lazy, then you look for ways to do things in the quickest, easiest way you can. That can be taken as a sign of inventiveness. I'm convinced that Edison only invented the light bulb because he got tired of struggling to light a match every time and Alexander Graham Bell wanted to talk to his friends without walking a couple miles to see them first.
Then, of course, we define "drive" by what's important to us and what we consider acceptable in society. If a person makes a million on sales commission, we say he has drive. If some 26 year old was working at McDonald's and hustling to be the best hamburger flipper there was, people call him a loser. And if your 16 year son practices at a video game for hours and hours to be the best player, we don't consider that drive. We call him lazy.
But all three of those people do have drive. They all just channel their drives differently and we need to understand and accept that instead of just focusing on the results of their drive.
It's one thing to have different goals and be "driven" in different directions, even when that drive is to just "be." It's another to complain about not getting anywhere when they have to take that first step.
Why are some driven and some not? I don't know. All my life I've been driven by a goal that I know is essentially impossible. Yet I keep pursuing it anyway. Along the way it's led me to be a part of some amazing things that I wouldn't have otherwise known, and the goal is still there.
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Originally Posted by rodentraiser
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Then, of course, we define "drive" by what's important to us and what we consider acceptable in society. If a person makes a million on sales commission, we say he has drive. If some 26 year old was working at McDonald's and hustling to be the best hamburger flipper there was, people call him a loser. And if your 16 year son practices at a video game for hours and hours to be the best player, we don't consider that drive. We call him lazy.
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Hey, if someone wants to be the best burger flipper that ever was, that's driven. It's the ones who don't care enough to hit the bun with the burger, and can't get the cheese and special sauce both on the same patty that are losers. Not because they are flipping burgers, but because they don't care about being the best burger flipper that ever was.
And that may be the biggest defining characteristic of driven individuals. They care about the goal.
This is a really interesting topic and I'm posting mainly to get my foot in the door.
What fascinates me is the difference between people who push themselves to success their entire lives, vs. those who just coast and take the easy ways.
I'm retired but I just can't quit and veg out watching TV. I got bored quickly, and in fact beginning the last day I had a job (the recession killed my career) I just cannot stop. I spent a couple years fixing up my house, selling it, traveled to a city I thought I would like (1,000 miles from home), didn't like it, came back, bought my new home. Still can't stop. Started a second career as a landlord. Not enjoying it, phasing it out now, retiring again.
Next project, I think I want to write a novel. I also want to explore my art potential (pen and ink, colored pencil, pastels.)
My drive does not have an on/off switch. It keeps me going. I am never bored, my mind keeps racing from the moment i wake up until I can finally wind down enough to sleep.
I am definitely not normal. I don't understand the concept of having an "off" switch that turns off my drive. I'm in this convo because I want to find out what others think about being able to switch it off or never have it at all.
It's one thing to have different goals and be "driven" in different directions, even when that drive is to just "be." It's another to complain about not getting anywhere when they have to take that first step.
Why are some driven and some not? I don't know. All my life I've been driven by a goal that I know is essentially impossible. Yet I keep pursuing it anyway. Along the way it's led me to be a part of some amazing things that I wouldn't have otherwise known, and the goal is still there.
Hey, if someone wants to be the best burger flipper that ever was, that's driven. It's the ones who don't care enough to hit the bun with the burger, and can't get the cheese and special sauce both on the same patty that are losers. Not because they are flipping burgers, but because they don't care about being the best burger flipper that ever was.
And that may be the biggest defining characteristic of driven individuals. They care about the goal.
i have a feeling this girl is complaining to the OP due to the nature of their relationship. Hopefully complaining a lot isn't her regular persona, but I of course know nothing. Just a hunch. I've used the eager ear of an ex to unload my emotional baggage before.
Why do we keep equating "what we do to earn money" with drive, though? A person could be a totally undriven person at his job because he wants to save his energy and drive for the things he does outside work. If you were hell bent on getting a physics degree, are you going to go all out when you report for your shift at McDonald's? There's a difference between getting done what needs to be done and going all out plus some for it 100% of the time. People aren't machines that can keep going and going. Sometimes you have to step back and look at the big picture and decide that if you're going to meet a goal, what the best way of doing that is. And sometimes going balls out at work, even if it's a career, may have to be sacrificed to be able to keep the energy level up for the things you think matter more.
When you see someone doing an adequate job, but not hustling, remember you don't know what all else is going on in his or her life. People don't have to hustle for you to see all the time. The "just adequate" burger flipper may be a pouring his energies into that chemistry class he's taking when you aren't watching. My point is, you don't know, so it's silly to judge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
Hey, if someone wants to be the best burger flipper that ever was, that's driven. It's the ones who don't care enough to hit the bun with the burger, and can't get the cheese and special sauce both on the same patty that are losers. Not because they are flipping burgers, but because they don't care about being the best burger flipper that ever was.
And that may be the biggest defining characteristic of driven individuals. They care about the goal.
I understand what you're saying, but there may be more to it than that. Even the most driven worker will turn sour if he's in a job he has to keep for some reason or the other and he either hates it or is working in a terrible work environment. Look at Seabiscuit.
I do think there is some depression there and probably a couple of issues balled up together.
It's not the not going to law school that is disappointing - it is the constant whining and crying about how her life sucks. There's no drive, whether it's going back to school to retrain in something marketable or moving to an area with a better job market, to do anything at all.
It's not even remotely fair to compare these two people on "drive." Her mother died! After college is a very precarious time in a person's life, losing someone while also going through significant life changes is extremely difficult. Her problem is not lack of drive, she is still grieving. I've been there, losing one's mother at a relatively young age is a devastating situation that can easily lead to depression.
Our culture does not know how to handle grief, people are expected to just "get over it." Generally the longest amount of time anyone is given a bit of a break to grieve is 1 year, but 1 year after the loss of someone hugely important in our lives is nothing. After that, people generally don't want to hear about it anymore, and we are supposed to go back to "normal," so we learn to shut up and push it inside, or elsewhere.
I believe she needs help coming to terms with her loss. It sounds like she is not in tune with her emotions and possibly doesn't even fully understand what is going on with her. I'd recommend she see a therapist. Grief is not a medical situation, she is not weak because her loss is "still" affecting her, but the guidance of a therapist can be very helpful in learning how to cope. Grief support groups can help. It's hard for younger people to find support after a loss because most of their peers haven't had these experiences yet.
Was she excited about going to law school? Was it something important that she had been planning for or was it just something to do after graduating? If law school was important to her and she gave it up that could signal a slide into a depression that might need treatment. If law school was not something she had any real passion for, giving it up was probably the best option but she might need help figuring out a direction for her life.
I know she's your ex and you weren't posting for her, but it sounds like you are friends. Clearly, what she's going through is more than just a "funk."
Why do we keep equating "what we do to earn money" with drive, though? A person could be a totally undriven person at his job because he wants to save his energy and drive for the things he does outside work. If you were hell bent on getting a physics degree, are you going to go all out when you report for your shift at McDonald's? There's a difference between getting done what needs to be done and going all out plus some for it 100% of the time. People aren't machines that can keep going and going. Sometimes you have to step back and look at the big picture and decide that if you're going to meet a goal, what the best way of doing that is. And sometimes going balls out at work, even if it's a career, may have to be sacrificed to be able to keep the energy level up for the things you think matter more.
I'm not saying she has to make money like Zuckerberg, but she has consistently complained about her finances and how she can't earn any money here, but refuses to retrain or move. I moved off to a major metro and got some skills which helped me land a good job in a small town. At some point, you get tired of hearing these complaints after you've given tons of advice.
She's stuck in this inertia - refuses to do anything to try and fix the situation, but wants to complain.
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Originally Posted by detshen
Was she excited about going to law school? Was it something important that she had been planning for or was it just something to do after graduating? If law school was important to her and she gave it up that could signal a slide into a depression that might need treatment. If law school was not something she had any real passion for, giving it up was probably the best option but she might need help figuring out a direction for her life.
I know she's your ex and you weren't posting for her, but it sounds like you are friends. Clearly, what she's going through is more than just a "funk."
Yes, it was her dream. She did well on the LSAT, started applying to schools, started losing weight, etc. I think her mother died in March and she graduated in May - either 2013 or 2014.
She is simply too pessimistic now. She'll text me or leave a voicemail with some complaint, but I am tired of hearing it by now.
Last edited by Serious Conversation; 02-02-2017 at 08:30 AM..
I don't have any answers to this, and I have thought about this question a LOT because although I am intelligent, a people-pleaser, and a very hard worker with a very strong work ethic, I have never had any ambition or drive to succeed as most American define success -- and all of the foregoing also applies to my mother and all three of my sisters. We all ended up in so-so careers with promotions and raises given to us without us actually "going" for them; we have obtained them only because of our work ethic and competence. It is like we all feel that as long as we are doing a good job, earning enough money, and are happy in what we do, that's good enough. (Also, none of us are materialistic in the sense of wanting expensive things. We all drive cars until the cost of repairs become exorbitant, we live in houses that cost less than we could afford, and we buy our basic clothing from places like Target.)
I don't think any of the above is a bad way to be, and I don't have any answers or theories, but I just find the OP's question a very interesting one.
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