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Can you give example on how your managers bullied you? You have had a lot of bullies in your life, so I would guess you are drawn to people like that, or you have a loose definition of bullying.
A lot of managers are bullies, it is not unusual. Maybe most people would have quit the job as soon as they started getting bullied. But I always thought maybe it was my fault, and maybe I just needed to work harder.
Maybe I am drawn to egomaniacs, that is possible. But there also has to be some bad luck involved. And my loser personality.
Wacko and I are the songwriters and the singers, in addition to playing instruments. Kyle is just an instrumentalist. So working with Wacko is great for me, except that he's crazy. Kyle is very good at his instrument, but I need Wacko to sing with.
OK, then you have a choice. Stick with the band, and take the abuse, or quit the band, and give up your dream for now, and hope another opportunity will come along later, sometime. IMO Wacko needs to be ditched. But if a band with him as part of your singing duo is more important than your peace of mind and self esteem, go for the abuse & band package. The 3rd option would be to yell at him when he yells at you, and don't let up, if he persists. Should make for very productive band practice (sarcasm), and you'd be virtually guaranteed to lose Kyle.
OK, then you have a choice. Stick with the band, and take the abuse, or quit the band, and give up your dream for now, and hope another opportunity will come along later, sometime. IMO Wacko needs to be ditched. But if a band with him as part of your singing duo is more important than your peace of mind and self esteem, go for the abuse & band package. The 3rd option would be to yell at him when he yells at you, and don't let up, if he persists. Should make for very productive band practice (sarcasm), and you'd be virtually guaranteed to lose Kyle.
It's your mental health, your choice.
Well it has been a hard choice, and that is why I have not made it yet.
I have to figure out if any of it could be my fault. Probably not, since I can usually get along with non-bullies. I have always had close friends who think I am nice.
Wacko is talented, and he thinks I am talented. I don't know if I can find that with someone else, although maybe I will have to try.
I have learned that I don't "attract" jerks. Jerks simply troll the universe looking for people who will put up with them, or give them what they want.
So, people with great boundaries and great self-esteem get hit up nearly as often as those who don't. The only reason they may get hit up less, is that they exude an aura that says, "There is no way in HECK I'm going to believe in any kind of nonsense story." So, it's not worth it to the "users" or needy people to even bother.
Because YES, they do know when they shouldn't bother.
Just think about people that you've known. There are some people you feel like you could ask a favor of, and others that you would never approach no matter what.
You need to become like one of those people. I'm working on this myself. I've had a ton of therapy on this issue. And I'm still a target, more so than the totally unapproachable people, only because of that - I'm approachable. But, what I've learned is that it's not my job to solve everyone else's problems.
I suggest something I have learned - just NEVER say yes. If you are conflicted, say "Let me think about it." Buy yourself some time, at least, before you say yes.
And learn pat answers regarding turning people down. "I'm sorry, my plate is just too full right now." "I'm sorry, that's just not in my budget."
Until you can just say now right up front, start out with "let me think about that." From my experience, people who are trying to get something out of you won't stop trying. Just because they keep bugging you, don't say yes. At worst, just keep saying, "I need to think about it."
When they try to ramp up some kind of deadline to make you commit, then you say, "Oh, I'm sorry if you need a commitment by that date, then my answer has to be no."
They will try to get you to give a reason for saying no - only so they can argue with every reason you give them. So, your best bet is to respond with a statement. "I'm sorry, my plate is full and I can't commit to anything else right now." They'll keep bugging you, and your job is to just keep repeating that statement. As many times as it takes.
It's stressful. But, an important lesson.
People who didn't grow up in your kind of home don't understand how hard this can be. People like you and me didn't grow up learning this, because the people in our families were trying to constantly get us to learn that we didn't have any boundaries or were wrong to expect any.
So, forget your childhood. You need to learn some grown up boundaries. The tricks above are first steps.
Beyond that, you need to feel your own self-worth regarding bullies. Nobody can bully you if you believe in your self-worth. If you honestly don't know your self-worth, then think of someone you know who does have self-worth - even if it's a movie character. And ask yourself if that person would put up with such behavior. If the answer is no, then take appropriate steps. If it's work, then go file a complaint with HR or quit, etc.
I read a saying once in a Mrs. Pollifax book and I have no idea if it's something she made up or if it really is a saying. It was "If you are a hammer, strike. If you are a peg, endure the striking".
The reason it caught my attention is because I feel I am a a peg. Yet I will not endure any striking. I get hammer people wanting to hit me a lot because I look like a peg that can be hit and won't fight back. Boy, do those people get a surprise, because I turn into a peg that strikes.
Now I could make life so much easier on myself by turning into a hammer, but I don't like striking people for no reason. So I accept that I am a peg and I'll have to fight hammers the rest of my life. That's OK with me. Maybe it will make the hammers a little more cautious around pegs in the future.
So OP, you may not be a target. But you do have to stand up to the bullies and let them know where they can't cross the line. It doesn't happen overnight. But you can start with one thing and go on from there. The confidence has to come from inside and think of it this way: you don't have to carry a club to let people know you are capable of handling them. Learning to say no and standing your ground is main thing.
I used to think I wasn't bullied as a child, but in fact my mother bullied me, and it affected my self-confidence as an adult.
You may have some unrecognized childhood incidents that set a pattern for your adult life.
Whatever your history, you probably need to work with a therapist to break the pattern and have the positive, supportive relationship you deserve.
>> They might see you as a good target because you don't fight back.
You said it!! I don't let people push me around! I'm a big Swede, so first of all, I'm too big to push around. But if I were to allow it, I'd be road kill in no time.
There used to be classes you could take in assertiveness training. I don't know if that's still done or not (?). I did take a course, went once, thought it was silly, and dropped out. The teacher called me to get me to come back, but I was assertive with her and stood my ground. But such a course might help some people.
I think maybe somehow I got the idea that people are good and nice, and it stuck in my mind. I am 65 years old, been bullied and conned, yet I seem to have not yet learned. I never built a good defense system.
I don't spend a lot of time doing things for people, however. I am stingy with my time because I am busy with hobbies, part-time job, etc.
When I was bullied at jobs the only option was to leave. That was their goal anyway, to get me to quit. One bully, a co-worker, got me fired, after torturing me every day for over a year. He convinced the boss that I worked too slow, which was a lie. I ignored his nastiness every day, dreaded going to work, but I needed the job. One time I fought back, and the manager said arguing was not allowed in the office. The manager and the boss loved the bully.
I found out that HR does not help with this at all.
A lot of managers are bullies, it is not unusual. Maybe most people would have quit the job as soon as they started getting bullied. But I always thought maybe it was my fault, and maybe I just needed to work harder.
Maybe I am drawn to egomaniacs, that is possible. But there also has to be some bad luck involved. And my loser personality.
You didn't answer the question, though. What is bullying to you? Did you think you were being bullied in this thread: No Reply ? The point Mikala was making was that you either attract a lot of abuse, or you have a squishy definition of bullying (i.e. anytime anyone has a strong opinion around you.)
You didn't answer the question, though. What is bullying to you? Did you think you were being bullied in this thread: No Reply ? The point Mikala was making was that you either attract a lot of abuse, or you have a squishy definition of bullying (i.e. anytime anyone has a strong opinion around you.)
Bullying is disrespectful, using anger to dominate someone and undermine their confidence. It is a complete lack of empathy or respect. Sociopaths are good at bullying, because they lack empathy. But you don't have to be an actual sociopath to bully someone. You just have to convince yourself the person is worthless and not deserving of respect.
A bully's target might deserve a little of the anger, but many targets don't deserve it at all.
The co-worker who bullied me either felt my work was inferior, OR felt threatened because I had more education and experience. I will never know what caused it, but it was pretty intense. He was consistently rude and angry and insulting.
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