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"I'm Italian! I can't help it! It's who we are! We are supposed to be stubborn!"
Or
"I'm a Leo! I'm supposed to be that way!"
Why make those excuses, rather than focus on themselves as individuals, and work out any negativity they have?
There was someone we learned about in Sociology class who theorized that we are all actors looking to play "our part" in life. If anyone can remember this individual's name, please share.
"I'm Italian! I can't help it! It's who we are! We are supposed to be stubborn!"
Or
"I'm a Leo! I'm supposed to be that way!"
Why make those excuses, rather than focus on themselves as individuals, and work out any negativity they have?
For one thing it's because many people aren't into "self-improvement" like you think everyone should be. I too would like to see everyone trying to better themselves. But the fact is many people simply don't have an interest in it and in some cases it's largely due to the culture of their family.
Another aspect to this is that there are cultural stereotypes and many people simply are the way they were raised to be, the way others in their culture are.
Others of us for whatever reason (introverts?) are more introspective and try to improve ourselves.
Honestly, after 50+ years of trying to improve myself I realize there is very little some of us can do, due to our young minds being imprinted a certain way at a very young age. I have a friend who is simply depressed all the time. But you would be too if you had his parents! I believe that in some cases "self help" and "self improvement" just won't work.
Look at it this way: some patients that come into the ER simply are beyond repair.
Likewise with self improvement.
But I have seen that for many people it is their culture, race or way they were raised that makes them have zero interest in trying to change the way they are. I think these are the people who embrace astrology and cultural mores. And who's to say they're not correct in doing so? Others of this ilk just simply don't eve think about any of that crap. "That crap is for people who don't have anything else to worry about." Or "That crap is for people who care about that crap."
I know people for whom self-improvement or introspection is just a foreign concept. They don't "do" self-improvement. Why? Because it's not their way. They don't roll that way. Period.
Last edited by movingvanmorrison; 10-12-2018 at 06:45 PM..
I think excessive negativity is a secret reward system for people with bad habits. Keep track of all the bad things that happen. Tuck them away in your special rewards bag. List them out to others.
And when you collect enough of them you can "redeem" them just like Green Stamps for that extra piece of chocolate cake, those double martinis or that pair of shoes you can't afford. Because, after all, look at how much I have suffered.
Bad habits and negativity go together.
That's really funny haha I love it!
I don't really get that type of mentality. I certainly complain a decent amount, but when I feel negative about something I do my best to try to change it. It won't do me any good to complain about it (though it's all you can do sometimes, while you wait to fix / change it), so ultimately you have to come up with a real plan for how you're going to improve your life and be happier.
The power of positive thinking is definitely substantial, though. With most things in life, it's hard to stop someone who won't quit and won't let their failures get in the way of learning and trying again and again. Negative people tend to throw in the towel too quickly and never get to where their natural ability may otherwise have led them, which is sad.
I think excessive negativity is a secret reward system for people with bad habits. Keep track of all the bad things that happen. Tuck them away in your special rewards bag. List them out to others.
And when you collect enough of them you can "redeem" them just like Green Stamps for that extra piece of chocolate cake, those double martinis or that pair of shoes you can't afford. Because, after all, look at how much I have suffered.
Bad habits and negativity go together.
Not saying your wrong. But maybe you are. This seems like a very cynical view. And I'm a cynic sometimes too.
Negativity is in the eye of the beholder.
I have been called a negative person. But I swear that much of what people think is me "being negative" is me being a realist, seeing things as objectively as possible and thinking based on the situation that it is going to be a negative outcome.
For example:
I wake up in the morning and see that, to me, based on what I have experienced and know about the weather here, it is going to be a rain today.
My wife says "... but it is sunny right now, we can do laundry and hang our clothes to dry."
I say, "No, but it's likely to rain today based on the weather report and based on what I see and feel of the air and sky, and I don't want to have to take the clothes down half way through drying."
She's an optimist. Optimist means (to me) seeing a positive outcome even though the evidence would suggest a negative outcome.
Typical result:
I am right. It rains. We have to take the clothes down.
"Optimist" often means a "Polyanna" type response to a reality you wish for that is not likely to occur.
"Pessimist" often means a person who is willing to see the possibility of a negative reality based on evidence, despite wishing it would be a more suitable preferred reality.
IMHO.
To me it makes little sense to be an optimist or a pessimist, it's best to be a realist.
Yet admittedly at times I am a pessimist.
I don't really get that type of mentality. I certainly complain a decent amount, but when I feel negative about something I do my best to try to change it. It won't do me any good to complain about it (though it's all you can do sometimes, while you wait to fix / change it), so ultimately you have to come up with a real plan for how you're going to improve your life and be happier.
The power of positive thinking is definitely substantial, though. With most things in life, it's hard to stop someone who won't quit and won't let their failures get in the way of learning and trying again and again. Negative people tend to throw in the towel too quickly and never get to where their natural ability may otherwise have led them, which is sad.
I highly recommend a book I am just finishing on this subject, the subject of "pessimism" vs. "optimism".
The book is called "Learned Optimism".
It points out that optimists are less likely to be depressed than pessimists. It points out that pessmism is usually learned early in life, by the 3rd grade or so, and has to do with parenting, childhood experiences, and how one learns to deal with failure.
This book was one of the first to talk about "cognitive therapy" or the therapy which teaches you to learn to not think negatively or pessimistically. It's a really interesting book that I think anyone attracted to this thread might want to read.
I personally have read several books on cognitive therapy and my take on this and many other therapeutic approaches to depression and anxiety is that it can help but isn't always a cure for pessimism and depression and anxiety. As in my "ER" admission scenario in a previous post, there are simply some people who are "beyond fixing" due to very bad experiences in life. This book also points this out more or less.
The above is a bit off the trail of the OP's question but I would point out that some people are simply beyond self-improvement. And others simply don't give a rat's ass. For whatever reason.
I have been frustrated by people who don't give a rat's ass about improving themselves. But at the same time, they're probably "happier" than I am and have been most of my life. So who is "right"?
I think optimism/pessimism are different than the negativity I am talking about. If you perceive accurately that something you think is negative is going to happen I'd call that realism.
If you take a certain amount of pleasure in negative things happening to you because it can be used to reward you or to get others to reward "poor you" that might actually be a hindrance to seeing positive things. It can become self-perpetuating, habit-forming. I think we all know people who go around listing off a litany of their woes.
But if you can just say to your wife, "See, I told you so" and feel good that your perception is so acute I don't see that as negative. Your wife might, though. Maybe she'll need that extra piece of chocolate cake if you do this enough times. LOL
The brain can be retrained to think more positively. It just takes practice.
But as you mention, some people actually develop damaged brains by dwelling on negative experiences. Psychiatry and neurology is doing work on teaching people how to "rewire" neural pathways to improve their mental health.
I think there is a bit of a mistake in thinking that complaining is related to negative thinking though and I’ve never understood that. I’ve had people say I’m negative because I have high standards and complain a lot, but I consider myself one of the most optimistic and positive people I know. I get that for some people complaining is part of a pessimistic world view but the two do NOT go together always. Most of the time I complain is because I’m a perfectionist and strive for the best, so I have high standards and expectations.
When I say I’m positive, it’s because I’m action-oriented. I started my own company 10 years ago during the recession and I sure wasn’t sitting there being negative about ways it could go wrong or how it could fail, I worked my butt off thinking I’ll find a way to succeed. Did I complain about taxes and business licenses and regulations? Sure, but none of that stopped my optimistic outlook that I’d find a way to succeed. The same is true with my career. If I were a negative person would I set my life goal and dream as a film writer-director? Probably not, the odds are stacked against you realistically but if people didn’t do anything with poor odds everyone would be checking groceries their whole lives.
When my best friend applied to a police department, his life dream, they had 128 applicants for 6 positions. He was hired. If he just thought “oh bad odds, may as well not bother,” he wouldn’t own his own home and be clearing $100K/year now doing a job he loves. In life the odds are always stacked against you doing anything useful or worthwhile, even being born in the first place! So you have every reason to remain positive and optimistic in the face of odds stacked against you.
I do think negativity is more likely in less intelligent and creative people, though. When I was in school I could always rely upon knowing if a test was hard for me, and if I thought I did poorly, it never mattered because I was smarter than almost everyone else in the class so I’ll be fine. If I found it hard, they found it impossible, and the test was always curved appropriately. I know that sounds bad to admit but it’s the truth. I was never ever the smartest kid in the class, sometimes I was the hardest working, but I could rely on being top 10-15% so if I worked hard and did my best, everything would be fine. Imagine a dumb kid who really did work hard and tried their best, but it’s never good enough. Ever. They always do poorly compared to everyone else. What reason for optimism do they have?
It’s just like when I see people talk about depression like nobody should ever be depressed. Some people have legitimate chemical imbalances that medication can fix. But if I were a lot of people living their miserable lives at a job I hated, coming home to a sexless marriage with a few screaming brats, my sleep quality was always poor to mediocre, and I barely had a moment to myself? Yeah I’d be depressed too! Depression is the correct human response to a miserable life. No amount of medication will fix a pathetic life, only massive lifestyle changes can do that and for some people they got themselves into a horrible situation for which there is no escape. Of course they’re negative and depressed, that means their brain works properly in correctly assessing their life as miserable! Should we wish instead they were somehow happy with their mediocre lives? I don’t think so. They’d never want any better life then and just live in mediocrity forever.
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