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^^ Gazania - Just to be clear, my response was not a directed at anything specific to your post. It was a blanket response to some of the general themes expressed in this thread.
Having almost been killed not once, but twice, in the past few years, when I was first in line for a green light and someone just sailed right through a Red (at 45 MPH or so, in one case going downhill) without even blinking, I really appreciated the cameras, though sometimes I questioned why "certain" stoplights got them over others (presumably based on number of wrecks, I know).
That said, my current car was (thankfully somewhat gently) rear-ended two months after I got it when I stopped for a Yellow because of the Camera. That was a major PITA for me to deal with (body shops, AARGH!), but I may have saved him from having a much worse accident (and I HOPE he learned a lesson).
Let's face it, we are all MUCH more distracted when behind the wheel than we were 10, let alone 5, years ago. If it takes the threat of a ticket to remind people that Yes, Red really does mean STOP! Not "keep texting and putting on your make-up and figure nobody will be coming from the other way."
The one thing I agree on that is somewhat anti-camera is if the Yellow was shortened, or not a consistent length, then I think that's more dangerous than not having a camera. But I really can't have sympathy for those who might whine "Waah, those mean ole cameras were keeping me from running red lights without getting caught!"
I guess I am a rare breed. In all my years driving (20+) I've never allowed somebody behind me to "force" me through an intersection when the light is turning yellow. Now there have been times I wasn't paying attention and at the last minute realized it was too late to stop before the yellow changed to red, but that was my fault not the driver behind me.
I also don't allow tailgaters on the highway force me to speed.
I'm fascinated by this concept of "last minute red lights". I recognize that some yellows are shorter than others. But a yellow light means "if safe to do so, prepare to stop short of the intersection". If you are paying attention there is no reason it shouldn't be safe to do so with the rare exception of icey / slick roads. Bad weather and tailgaters are a part of driving and you just have to adjust your speed accordingly to compensate for those situations.
I'm with you...I look at it this way: I was taught long ago (maybe in drivers ed?) that In the eyes of the law, if you rear end someone, it is YOUR fault, regardless of the circumstances. Ice, or yellow light, or pig in the road, or whatever causes that person to stop short, if you hit them from behind, you are at fault.
So if I have a choice of stopping on a yellow or proceeding into an intersection that I can't see with 100% clarity is entirely vacant and will remain so (and in Raleigh, there arent that many, we have lots of vegetation) then I will stop. and pray.
I would feel really bad for the irresponsible motorcyclist behind me but I would get over it. And it is possible I would be pushed into the intersection and get T-Boned anyway, but I would have a clear conscience.
Perhaps to avoid accidents they could just set the timing of the cross traffic going "green" to hold a bit after the previous traffic goes "red" to account for people running last minute red lights.
If you pay attention to the opposite stoplight you'll notice it is red for appox. 2 seconds before your light turns green. I feel as if this has the opposite effect in preventing collisions from red-light runners. People have learned of this delay and now bust red lights when they are red long before they enter the intersection.
Personally, I feel the red-light running will stop if the DOT timed the stoplights so your light will turn green 1 second before the opposite light turns red. I assure you people will eventually start stopping as soon as they see their light turn yellow. Stupidity is self-correcting.
"A February study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, however, compared crash data from 1992 to 1996, before the cameras were in place, with data from 2004 to 2008, and found that Raleigh actually saw an increase in wrecks at camera-patrolled intersections."
I'm of the belief that many people stop short or speed through yellows in these intersections which is actually much riskier driving versus non-camera controlled intersections.
So this would have been better reporting on the part of the N&O if they had gotten that ACTUAL data on red light cameras (or presented conflicting data clearly if that is the case). Regardless, it bugs me that the council members appear to have voted against it based on some sense of defending civil liberties rather than cold hard facts. (whatever those facts may be). DO the red light cameras make our streets safer? Should be the only deciding factor.
So this would have been better reporting on the part of the N&O if they had gotten that ACTUAL data on red light cameras (or presented conflicting data clearly if that is the case). Regardless, it bugs me that the council members appear to have voted against it based on some sense of defending civil liberties rather than cold hard facts. (whatever those facts may be). DO the red light cameras make our streets safer? Should be the only deciding factor.
I agree that safety and the basic question of "have these reduced the number of accidents?" should have driven the decision. But removing civil liberties can make us "safer" ie. state run cameras in our houses would probably keep domestic abuse/drug use/theft to a minimum but I'm certainly not in favor of the state snooping on me in the shower. All arguments aside - I'm happy the cameras are gone
I agree that safety and the basic question of "have these reduced the number of accidents?" should have driven the decision. But removing civil liberties can make us "safer" ie. state run cameras in our houses would probably keep domestic abuse/drug use/theft to a minimum but I'm certainly not in favor of the state snooping on me in the shower. All arguments aside - I'm happy the cameras are gone
The only "civil right" these cameras threaten is the "right" to run red lights and possibly cause serious accidents. If you don't do that, no worry of "rights infringement".
Objections to the enforcement process cannot be dismissed with the advice "just don't do it". I've been driving for 40 years. I've never had a red-light ticket, but I still object to the setup.
The process is not judicial. It doesn't occur in a courtroom before a judge, and the outcome cannot be appealed to a court. Appeal proceedings are not required to follow established rules of judicial procedure. The city is, in effect, both prosecutor and judge. And worse, one must pay the ticket in full before filing an appeal -- in other words, one is presumed guilty until found innocent.
The NC General Assembly authorized this process in 2001.
Objections to the enforcement process cannot be dismissed with the advice "just don't do it". I've been driving for 40 years. I've never had a red-light ticket, but I still object to the setup.
The process is not judicial. It doesn't occur in a courtroom before a judge, and the outcome cannot be appealed to a court. Appeal proceedings are not required to follow established rules of judicial procedure. The city is, in effect, both prosecutor and judge. And worse, one must pay the ticket in full before filing an appeal -- in other words, one is presumed guilty until found innocent.
The NC General Assembly authorized this process in 2001.
The only "civil right" these cameras threaten is the "right" to run red lights and possibly cause serious accidents. If you don't do that, no worry of "rights infringement".
So the assumption of innocence until being proven guilty isn't a thing anymore?
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