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I realize everyone may think I'm a real heel, but I hope that remark is seen more in the light of scientific observation rather than any kind of slam on anyone. It was mainly made in light of another church I went to that seemed like they only allowed the beautiful ones to attend. But hey, they need God, too.
I realize everyone may think I'm a real heel, but I hope that remark is seen more in the light of scientific observation rather than any kind of slam on anyone. It was mainly made in light of another church I went to that seemed like they only allowed the beautiful ones to attend. But hey, they need God, too.
I understood your message to mean that everyone is welcomed and I appreciated knowing that. I would appreciate any other information on any other church. Thanks.
My second visit to Crosspointe Church this past week was good and not as good.
Good
I got to experience the entire worship part of the service.
The band, worship leader, and the music were all great. Calm when needed, and rockin when needed. This of course is very subjective.
Preaching was excellent, what I have come to expect from listening to many Crosspointe sermons online (both Jonathan Bow and Steve Daugherty are superb, experienced beyond their years).
Not as Good
The audience was participating at a much lower level of expression than the worship service merited, IMHO. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being Gregorian Chant, and 10 being a Punk Rock concert, I'd say the music was at a 6 or 7, while the congregation was at a 3.
The three backup worship singers were fairly lifeless as well. The style and content of the music they were doing really demanded more expression than they gave it, in my opinion. If they had been a little more alive, I'll bet some of the congregation would have followed suit.
It really gets me that whats happening on stage is so great, but what's happening on the floor is so... nothing. Maybe most are spectators, rather than participants. I don't know.
Raleigh Vineyard Church... Someone suggested that. I think we may try it this weekend. A person on staff reported that the size of that one was about 500 (in attendance), which is a little smaller than I'd like, but not out of the running. Also, they are in NE Raleigh. That's a bit of a drive since we're in Holly Springs, but I'll drive a good ways for a good church.
Caveat: vibrant expression is not mandatory for worship. There are many cases where the expression seems to be mild, but there is a real experience with God going on at the spirit level. And the opposite is true: many even speak in tongues, but they are doing it under their own power, for show, rather than by God's prompting. The beauty of Christianity is that the outside does not have to match the inside. I respect that people worship in accordance with their personality, for the most part -- some are very expressive, while some are reserved. But I was looking at a group of about 300-400, I think... and I would think I would see more levels of expression. All I saw was: 1) one person who raised their hands, fairly briefly, 2) about half were swaying or otherwise moving their body in some small way to the music, and all the rest were 3) motionless. Something is holding them back.
Caveat: vibrant expression is not mandatory for worship. There are many cases where the expression seems to be mild, but there is a real experience with God going on at the spirit level. And the opposite is true: many even speak in tongues, but they are doing it under their own power, for show, rather than by God's prompting. The beauty of Christianity is that the outside does not have to match the inside. I respect that people worship in accordance with their personality, for the most part -- some are very expressive, while some are reserved. But I was looking at a group of about 300-400, I think... and I would think I would see more levels of expression. All I saw was: 1) one person who raised their hands, fairly briefly, 2) about half were swaying or otherwise moving their body in some small way to the music, and all the rest were 3) motionless. Something is holding them back.
Do you have any interest in what a church family does in/for the community and it's own congregation, or is 'the show' what's important for you?
The reason I ask...
A few years back, I joined a church that had all of the characteristics you've listed as being pluses...every single thing. I always left there feeling 'moved'.
But after a few months, I went to the church for advice/direction on how to help a homeless woman and the 'short version' of the story, is my 'spirit filled', multi-million dollar church couldn't give me ANY direction...
I ended up calling a church from a different denomination, and they immediately gave me some direction, and we were able to get her shelter for the night.
I learned alot that day about what to 'look for' in a church.
But after a few months, I went to the church for advice/direction on how to help a homeless woman and the 'short version' of the story, is my 'spirit filled', multi-million dollar church couldn't give me ANY direction...
That's a very good illustration. It sure looks like that church is really missing the boat regarding how a church should relate to the community around them.
Crosspointe, for one, has some interesting intiatives:
They are sponsoring a single mom, and have just recently moved her out of a shelter and into her own home.
They are supporting an orphanage in Africa. Making a significant impact on those 60 children. They had a "school" hut/shack that would let in cold air and make the children sick. They were able to fix that up and now I think they have a safe building, more protected from the elements. Etc.
I'm new, so I imagine that there's more.
The concept that Crosspointe seems to be embracing is one of focused benevolence. Instead of spreading a little money among the many needs, they are really focusing in on fewer big needs and doing them well.
--
As for what I want in a church, I want them to listen to the same Spirit who invigorates them on Sunday, and also hear what He has to say about blessing the community.
You can jump around and have a rocking band and speak in tongues on Sunday, but if you don't have love that acts (feeding the hungry, taking care of widows and orphans, etc.), then what you have is considered as nothing.
You can jump around and have a rocking band and speak in tongues on Sunday, but if you don't have love that acts (feeding the hungry, taking care of widows and orphans, etc.), then what you have is considered as nothing.
hurricanedavid,
I got a chance to hear a few of the sermons on Crosspointe's website while at home doing some cleaning. I loved every sermon. And you're right, those guys are experienced beyond their years. Let us know how you like Raleigh Vineyard church.
Have you, or anyone for that matter, visited Celebration Family Church in Raleigh?
You should try and visit Celebration Family Church. That is where I visited today (9/14). It's a great church. I don't know whether or not you've visited there. I think it may have what you looking for. I really liked the service. I may go back this Wednesday for their mid-week service/Bible Study.
Here is the web link: http://www.celebrationfamilychurch.com/home
I know this post is over a year old, but just wanted to correct something:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sls76
Colonial and Providence are both great churches, but if speaking in tongues is important to you, I doubt these would be what you are looking for. Plus, neither is non-denominational. Providence is Southern Baptist and Colonial is Baptist.
Despite the name, Colonial Baptist Church is in fact non-denominational; it is not formally affiliated with any denomination.
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