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Thread summary:

Realtors take of WRAL report, Mike Walden, housing market worsens in Triangle, bargain place to live, production builders, inventory homes, custom builders drop prices, interest rates

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Old 10-24-2007, 10:22 AM
 
351 posts, read 1,194,359 times
Reputation: 128

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Dansdrive, you so know you're going to get the gloom and doom label.
Work it and own it, man!

To save Vicki and Mike some time....here are all the arguments one could ever want:

# Houses always increase in value in the long run.

# As a renter, you have no opportunity to build equity.

# Renting is just throwing money away.

# There are great tax advantages to owning.

# All real estate is local, so you cannot say anything about the national market.

# OK, owning is a loss in monthly cash flow, but appreciation will make up for it.

# As soon as prices drop a little, the number of buyers on the sidelines willing to jump back in increases.

# House prices never fall (in my city).

# Houses are worth what people are paying for them, no matter what that price is.

# House prices don't fall to zero like stock prices, so it's safer to invest in real estate.

# We know it will be a soft landing, since it says so in the papers.

# The bubble prices were driven by supply and demand.

# They aren't making any more land.

# If you rent you are a buyer. You are just buying it for someone else.

# If you don't own, you'll live in a dump in a bad neighborhood.

# Owners can change their houses to suit their tastes.

# If and when the market goes south, you can walk away.

# The house down the street sold for 25% over asking, and that proves the market is still hot.

# The MLS proves things are great.

# Rich Chinese (or Europeans, or Arabs) are driving up housing prices.

# There's always someone predicting a real estate crash.

# But housing was high when interest rates were 21%, so higher interest rates don't matter.

# Local incomes justify the high prices.

# Look, housing continued to rise after the 2001 stock market crash, so it will always rise.

# Rent can go up, but a 30-year fixed mortgage payment cannot.

# You have to live somewhere.

# My appraisal proves what my house is worth.

# It's not a house,iit's a home.

# If you don't buy now, you'll never get another chance.

# Housing will be permanently higher since downpayments are now obsolete.

# House ownership is at a record high, proving things are affordable.

# Houses are worth whatever fools will pay for them.


I'm all about the numbers so here's what I say about deciding whether or not to sell or buy....

To sell:
When you take taxes and maintenance costs into account, here's a quick and dirty check on what your house is worth: take what you could rent it for per year, and divide by 0.06. So if your house would rent for $12,000 per year, it's worth about $200,000.

If yearly rents are less than 6% of the price of a house, watch out, because house prices are likely to fall.


To buy:
* a 30-year mortgage + tax + insurance + maintenance is less than 30% of your gross pay and
* the loss from interest, tax, insurance, and maintenance is less than rent on an equivalent place and
* you plan on staying put for 10 years or more

If you want the counter arguments to these statements see
Housing Crash Continues, Bubble Pops

I think ultimately I'm somewhere in between these two extremes. No black and white for me, I'm trying to live in the gray. I think this is the most even handed forecast I've seen and it's still positive for the area:
thebubblebuster.com - Dispelling fiction in every real estate market
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Wake Forest
2,835 posts, read 7,340,922 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by omamia View Post
Dansdrive, you so know you're going to get the gloom and doom label.
Work it and own it, man!

To save Vicki and Mike some time....here are all the arguments one could ever want:

# Houses always increase in value in the long run.

# As a renter, you have no opportunity to build equity.

# Renting is just throwing money away.

# There are great tax advantages to owning.

# All real estate is local, so you cannot say anything about the national market.

# OK, owning is a loss in monthly cash flow, but appreciation will make up for it.

# As soon as prices drop a little, the number of buyers on the sidelines willing to jump back in increases.

# House prices never fall (in my city).

# Houses are worth what people are paying for them, no matter what that price is.

# House prices don't fall to zero like stock prices, so it's safer to invest in real estate.

# We know it will be a soft landing, since it says so in the papers.

# The bubble prices were driven by supply and demand.

# They aren't making any more land.

# If you rent you are a buyer. You are just buying it for someone else.

# If you don't own, you'll live in a dump in a bad neighborhood.

# Owners can change their houses to suit their tastes.

# If and when the market goes south, you can walk away.

# The house down the street sold for 25% over asking, and that proves the market is still hot.

# The MLS proves things are great.

# Rich Chinese (or Europeans, or Arabs) are driving up housing prices.

# There's always someone predicting a real estate crash.

# But housing was high when interest rates were 21%, so higher interest rates don't matter.

# Local incomes justify the high prices.

# Look, housing continued to rise after the 2001 stock market crash, so it will always rise.

# Rent can go up, but a 30-year fixed mortgage payment cannot.

# You have to live somewhere.

# My appraisal proves what my house is worth.

# It's not a house,iit's a home.

# If you don't buy now, you'll never get another chance.

# Housing will be permanently higher since downpayments are now obsolete.

# House ownership is at a record high, proving things are affordable.

# Houses are worth whatever fools will pay for them.


I'm all about the numbers so here's what I say about deciding whether or not to sell or buy....

To sell:
When you take taxes and maintenance costs into account, here's a quick and dirty check on what your house is worth: take what you could rent it for per year, and divide by 0.06. So if your house would rent for $12,000 per year, it's worth about $200,000.

If yearly rents are less than 6% of the price of a house, watch out, because house prices are likely to fall.


To buy:
* a 30-year mortgage + tax + insurance + maintenance is less than 30% of your gross pay and
* the loss from interest, tax, insurance, and maintenance is less than rent on an equivalent place and
* you plan on staying put for 10 years or more

If you want the counter arguments to these statements see
Housing Crash Continues, Bubble Pops

I think ultimately I'm somewhere in between these two extremes. No black and white for me, I'm trying to live in the gray. I think this is the most even handed forecast I've seen and it's still positive for the area:
thebubblebuster.com - Dispelling fiction in every real estate market
Oh omamia I am so there already. Must be my writing style as I seem to always get 'branded' if I may....doom and gloom. I even wear bright colored clothing but to no avail I'm afraid. Any who....great comments and interesting reads. thanks for sharing.

P.S. Next thing you know the Ruby sleeper person will be coming my way. Well at least she brought her house with her.
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
12,475 posts, read 32,236,574 times
Reputation: 9450
Wow...I'm gonna just make a copy of everything omamia said and just hand it out to buyers on the street!!!

Well, since the housing market is so bad...where else do you think I'm gonna find my buyers???

Ok...THAT was a joke!!!

The housing market here is not so bad and I don't hang out on street corners!!!

Vicki
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
12,475 posts, read 32,236,574 times
Reputation: 9450
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansdrive View Post
IMHO this thread is leaving me with the conclusion.
If you don't have to sell in the near term Don't.
If you have to 'price right' and the house will sell.
If you have to move here in the near term you have options, rent, lease, buy. Same options you always had.

What am I missing?

Oh yea, this is not CA, NV, NY, FL, MI, or DC as most of those get rain!
I don't find this thread by brightly colored clothing dansdrive to be "doom and gloom".

In all honesty, now is not the BEST time to sell. Its not spring. Its our normal slow season. And if you price high, its really never a good time to sell; however, in the spring we are more willing to test the market.

Pricing right means your house will always sell, usually within 30 days.

And if you are moving here now, its a great time for buyers to buy. I'd rather be a buyer NOW than in spring, when builders will typically raise their prices whether houses have been setting for months or not. Haven't you heard of "spring increase"?

Actually, I think dansdrive simplified it so maybe more people will understand it?

One can always dream!

Vicki
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:00 AM
 
354 posts, read 1,217,721 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighBoundGeek View Post
I recall reading most of the resets seem to happen at the end of October. How long it will take for the "resets" to cause issues (if they do - some companies have foresworn a reset this year) is anyone's guess (well anyone's but mine - don't have a clue).

On the plus side, considering we seem to have a lower incidence than most areas as far as high-rate mortgages, we might not get hit quite as hard. Still - since the number was around 20.5% of mortgages acquired for 2004-2006- we could get pretty hard. That's a LOT of households.
Another statistic

66% of the mortgages resetting from now till end of year are variable rate mortgages that will have to refinance at a higher rate.
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:04 AM
 
3,031 posts, read 9,086,083 times
Reputation: 842
Pro-home owning person here who really wishes we didn't hit financial armeggedon and had to sell our house. Who knows if/when we'll own again. A *BIG* part of the reason we want to move to NC is that the possibility we'll be homeowners again is that much better than in New England.

That said, I will start screaming in this forum if one more person says renting is terrible, you will wind up in a dump, you are wasting your money, renters are low-lifes, etc.
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:11 AM
 
31,683 posts, read 41,028,394 times
Reputation: 14434
Do I need therapy? I mean I sold in April, bought in May and should be going to settlement in December. I mean I am happy as a pig in mud. Is there something the matter with me? My old home would be going for less now and my new home is going for more and the builder is getting it. Not a lot more but more. My foolish son is even more naive. He sold and purchased in September all down here. Geeez must be genetic. Well I guess Mike and Vicki can only hope there are a few more losers like us out there. If we are the last of mutated breed then they will be looking for another line of work. Lets see maybe I should go out and buy some stock since the market is down big today. No if I did that I would make money when it goes up and I don't want to do or do I. Hmmmm maybe Vicki is right if your neighborhood is going down in price sell and if you find one going up buy? Which means this is a good market for a saavy person and a bad one for one who is not as saavy. Hmmmm so if all the saavy people get together and buy and sell from each other all is good?
Business, financial, personal finance news - CNNMoney

Why is it that if I look at the housing data on the same page as the stock market data I have it all in greater perspective. Today is just a yuk day all over. Yesterday was a good day.

If you want to treat your house as an investment then you better have a balanced portfolio. If you are only putting money into your house that is the same as doing a 100% sector play in real estate with a very limited set of holdings. Better yet treat it as a home and raise your kids there and give them a yard to play in.

Last edited by TuborgP; 10-24-2007 at 11:24 AM..
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
2,135 posts, read 7,655,083 times
Reputation: 1610
Quote:
Originally Posted by VickiR View Post
And if you are moving here now, its a great time for buyers to buy. I'd rather be a buyer NOW than in spring, when builders will typically raise their prices whether houses have been setting for months or not. Haven't you heard of "spring increase"?
Perfect The lease for my apt ends in April. Lets hope it makes up for a bad time to sell in MA.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:18 PM
 
31,683 posts, read 41,028,394 times
Reputation: 14434
Default Do you hear what you are saying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy526 View Post
I agree that while fall going into winter are down months almost everywhere to sell, I think it has begun to slow down here and we won't see as many houses moving next spring/summer. I live in a desirable neighborhood in Northwest Raleigh off of Leesville rd. where the housing prices in my Neighborhood range from $200-$250 or so and only one house is listed with Wake county as closing this summer and that was in May (so not even summer), another house just closed a few weeks ago, but there are still like 8 or so houses on the market that have been on the market since spring. I've checked the comps and at least 6 of them seemed to be priced right. So I really think something is going on here. In the summer of 2006, we had 8 closings and this summer we had NONE, with about 8 houses being on the market since Spring.

Again, this is just my neighborhood, but it seems to be slowing here and I'm suprised with the great location and relatively inexpensive houses. Prices are not dropping which is good, but it seems like it's A LOT harder to sell this year compared to last year.

It could be a lot worse, so I'm not freaked out or anything, we're just experiencing in a very small way, what most of the country has been hit hard by. Like I've said before, my 1200 s.f. "older" townhouse in NoVA that I sold last year has already been foreclosed on and the bank is asking $100k less then what I got for it last year and it's been on the market for 4 months with no bites so far. In 2000 my old townhouse was only appraised for $101,000
Alright Bro tell me if this sounds familiar to you. "Wait until Spring next year it will get better?" You didn't and it got worse. I didn't and it got worse. If people think the bubble will hit the Triangle then sell now and sell fast. Get what you can for it will only go lower. I know and I am sure you do folks in the DC area who are kicking themselve for not going on the market when we did. I am sure we didn't realize it then but I hear it now all the time you sold at the end of the good times. I suspect we thought it was the start of the short lived bad times but little did we know. If DansDrive is right then I say lower to market price and sell. If you think the bubble will miss Raleigh Hold em if not sell em.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:28 PM
 
351 posts, read 1,194,359 times
Reputation: 128
Tuborg,

From your lips to my seller's ears. We're in negotiations on a place right now. We've come up to the most generous comp price (10K below asking) but the seller's aren't budging and I'm pretty sure the deal will just fall through. The sellers are planning to take it off the market and relist in April if it does. This house has been on the market for 6 months and the sellers have a contingency on another house. They've had to drop their price abt. 20K already but it was overpriced to begin with. Their listing agent says that they are offering an opportunity to us. I say we're doing them a favor by taking it off of their hands. Feel like sending them this thread.

Oh well....there will be other houses.
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