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Rent prices in Durham have increased 50% since 2011. Tell us if Teacher or Firefighter or low skill worker ( let's say people collecting garbage for the city) wages have gone up this much. That's all we are asking.
If you agree that "lower end tier of wages" have not increased as much, why do you disagree that people are paying higher and higher percentage of wages in rents? And people who live in "Prime Locations" are even in a worst position, because there is a bidding war to purchase the land they are renting on. How difficult is this logic to understand?
Can't you then use logic to understand that fewer and fewer people will accept to live in a location, where they can't afford rent and will be forced to move? Isn't that the definition of Gentrification, which is the topic of this thread?
I dunno. The firefighter down the street from me owns two newer full sized pickups and a new Camaro, easily $100k in cars. Plus the house. So I'm not considering those types of workers like you as "low skilled".
I never said the "low skilled" workers aren't feeling pain. We just have different views on how to help them. That being said you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. There is little society can do for those who don't invest in their future and acquire skills and instead choose to work at low wage jobs their entire lives.
I guess I don't understand the anger over people not being able to live somewhere. I would love to live in Santa Barbra but can not afford the home prices. Similarly when we moved to Raleigh we moved to the outskirts in order to be able to afford a place. I have moved in the past because rent was increased and we found a better deal elsewhere. Yet I didn't expect to hear the worlds smallest violin playing for me.
30% of adults make less than 20,000 a year, which is the equivalent of $10/h. Don't pretend that raising the minimum wage affects only those currently making minimum wage.
I'd love to know where this stat comes from, and the details.
In Raleigh, EMTs earn $30,084 annually. Paramedics earn $38,137. And flight paramedics make $40,804 in yearly income.
Let's say someone like that used to spend $800 on rent. 7 years later, they are spending close to $1200 / month on rent. How much is left for this person to actually save? put food on the table, own a car with insurance, ...get higher education?
What you ignore is that these people have lived in these places for many years. They have planned their lives for a decade around $800-$900/month for rent, now you asking them to pay $1200 or move out. This is exactly what Gentrification does. It doesn't care that some people have planned their lives (save money for college for their kids, planned for retirements, education, vacation, ...) at those prices. Now they are forced to change all their plans, because some shady schemes are driving property prices through the roof for a quick profit. I don't know how old you are. But, yes the younger population can adapt. What about the elderly? The disabled? Those on fixed income, those with large families? Those who have had unexpected things happen in their lives and can't move, ... etc. ... what is your solution for them?
What people are asking you to do is actually use real data to build your opinion, not some alternate facts based on a few outliers.
I know a teacher who just bought a $450k house, because his dad passed away and he inherited money, lots of money. Maybe I should also go around telling people that teachers in NC pay $450k for houses ...
Does this even make sense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup
I dunno. The firefighter down the street from me owns two newer full sized pickups and a new Camaro, easily $100k in cars. Plus the house. So I'm not considering those types of workers like you as "low skilled".
I never said the "low skilled" workers aren't feeling pain. We just have different views on how to help them. That being said you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. There is little society can do for those who don't invest in their future and acquire skills and instead choose to work at low wage jobs their entire lives.
I guess I don't understand the anger over people not being able to live somewhere. I would love to live in Santa Barbra but can not afford the home prices. Similarly when we moved to Raleigh we moved to the outskirts in order to be able to afford a place. I have moved in the past because rent was increased and we found a better deal elsewhere. Yet I didn't expect to hear the worlds smallest violin playing for me.
Walmart averages $9/hour for cashiers/sales associates in NC according to glassdoor.com. Are these jobs for kids? I don't personally shop at Walmart, but I'm sure it is not kids doing these jobs. Where do you get your stats from?
How much is $9/hour? Less than $20k/ year? It doesn't matter who the job is "meant to be for". Someone's got to do this job. I doubt someone will intentionally pass on better jobs for go work for this type of wages.
Again, Anecdotal stuff ... Because YOU made more than minimum wage, everyone in America that is your age should be making the same. Are those who work those other jobs just too stupid? Why can't they find the same job that you found? I'm sure if everyone in America could find those jobs you got, we would all be happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup
Well hardly any adult is making minimum wage and even teens don't really make it, I made about double min wage even without a HS diploma in high school. The job market is tight and employers raise pay to attract qualified people. The single best thing we can do for people is increase economic activity and with that available jobs...that will raise pay due to market forces.
Min wage was never designed to be able to feed a family living on your own...why people try to twist their argument to make that case I won't understand.
Henri I used to work for UPS loading packages on airplanes. The pay was $8.50/hr and hours were 730pm-1030pm. I was the only teenager there, I did it for a second job after working 6am-2pm at my day job at a grocery store over summer vacations. The other adults there did it solely as second jobs because it paid for their families health insurance. I did it because I just wanted to be around airplanes!
I don't know the stories behind all of Walmart's workers. Some clearly are immigrants, some never made it through high school, the list goes on. It's not my or anyone else's job to assign value to someone's wage, certainly not the government. But it's a low skill job. If you can fog a mirror and show up on time it's yours to lose and can be used as a jumping point. Better than after the previous recession when I went to apply at Pizza Hut and they said don't bother, there are no jobs. There's that whole supply and demand thing again that I've been preaching about.
I'm not sure what your point in all of this is? That people might have to move? Um, so what? That's life. What's your point about paramedics? The wage is the wage. They make more than my wife and I did combined after graduating college. So good for them. They can probably afford to maybe even buy a car vs ride a bicycle to work like I had to! So I'd say they are living pretty well!
As taken from your article:
"It’s important to note that the job of a paramedic can lead to career growth in the medical field. This can, by its very nature, lead to a grander salary. For example, a paramedic earns more than an EMT, but a fire fighter paramedic or flight paramedic typically earns more than a ground or ambulance paramedic.
Some licensed paramedics may even elect to go back to school and take the Paramedic to RN bridge program, which allows them to work towards becoming a Registered Nurse. All of these varying jobs that relate to or branch off from the role of a paramedic can affect one’s annual income."
So those who put effort into their careers find monetary rewards? Wow that's interesting. Well in your world I suppose we'd just pay them more just because, let's not give anyone any incentive to better themselves. Honestly it sounds like you are in the wrong country my friend. There are folks over in Greece that agree with your thinking however.
In Raleigh, EMTs earn $30,084 annually. Paramedics earn $38,137. And flight paramedics make $40,804 in yearly income.
Let's say someone like that used to spend $800 on rent. 7 years later, they are spending close to $1200 / month on rent. How much is left for this person to actually save? put food on the table, own a car with insurance, ...get higher education?
What you ignore is that these people have lived in these places for many years. They have planned their lives for a decade around $800-$900/month for rent, now you asking them to pay $1200 or move out. This is exactly what Gentrification does. It doesn't care that some people have planned their lives (save money for college for their kids, planned for retirements, education, vacation, ...) at those prices. Now they are forced to change all their plans, because some shady schemes are driving property prices through the roof for a quick profit. I don't know how old you are. But, yes the younger population can adapt. What about the elderly? The disabled? Those on fixed income, those with large families? Those who have had unexpected things happen in their lives and can't move, ... etc. ... what is your solution for them?
when I clicked all the way through the link, it said paramedics made $39,622. And the "article" wasn't dated, so no way to know if it's current or not.
After that, you went pretty straight "anecdotal"...
Do you really think rent was static at the same amount for a decade?
Do you think a high % of people that have rented for a decade in our market: save money for college; plan for retirement, education, vacations, etc?
What shady schemes are driving property prices through the roof for a quick profit?
In Raleigh, EMTs earn $30,084 annually. Paramedics earn $38,137. And flight paramedics make $40,804 in yearly income.
Let's say someone like that used to spend $800 on rent. 7 years later, they are spending close to $1200 / month on rent. How much is left for this person to actually save? put food on the table, own a car with insurance, ...get higher education?
What you ignore is that these people have lived in these places for many years. They have planned their lives for a decade around $800-$900/month for rent, now you asking them to pay $1200 or move out. This is exactly what Gentrification does. It doesn't care that some people have planned their lives (save money for college for their kids, planned for retirements, education, vacation, ...) at those prices. Now they are forced to change all their plans, because some shady schemes are driving property prices through the roof for a quick profit. I don't know how old you are. But, yes the younger population can adapt. What about the elderly? The disabled? Those on fixed income, those with large families? Those who have had unexpected things happen in their lives and can't move, ... etc. ... what is your solution for them?
What people are asking you to do is actually use real data to build your opinion, not some alternate facts based on a few outliers.
I know a teacher who just bought a $450k house, because his dad passed away and he inherited money, lots of money. Maybe I should also go around telling people that teachers in NC pay $450k for houses ...
Does this even make sense?
lol... you complain about someone being anecdotal, then you yourself do the same thing.
When we lived in NYC, we rented in a middle income project where good working people could live in a decent home. The land was taken by eminent domain.
I know projects have a bad name, but if well run, they serve a good purpose.
Instead of letting greed rule, governments can take land to build middle income projects using the power of eminent domain.
That's the only way the lowlife developers can be kept from gentrifying areas, building junk, and ruining the lives of those forced out.
Capitalism has failed these citizens terribly.
The state has eminent domain and needs to use it.
Last edited by CapitalBlvd; 04-15-2018 at 06:08 AM..
Interesting thread. And yes it is all true, gentrification is coming at the cost of displacing lots of lower income residents. Durham consistently votes for a city council and mayor who always talk about creating affordable housing is a priority, but I don't see a lot of that being done.
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