MVP Math Curriculum in WCPSS classes? (Chapel Hill, Jefferson: 2015, chapel, attorneys)
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
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Curious what our parents and teachers think.
Is this groundbreaking instruction?
Is it more practical for average kids to integrate arithmetical and mathematical principals into daily life?
Is it appropriate for STEM students, to accelerate math skills for them to compete?
It's been a complete and utter failure when it is rolled out correctly. Yes, you read that right - when it is rolled out correctly. Not just here, but in other districts across the country. Districts that have supposedly had success with it (such as Chapel Hill) have been proved to be fudging the numbers. Schools in WCPSS that are having "success" with it are not using it as intended. At GHHS, where the former principal insisted it be taught "by the book" almost every freshman technically failed the first semester and passed only due to a MASSIVE curve, and hours and hours of tutoring.
Also on Facebook: Parents of MVP Math Students in Wake County
WCPSS solution to the problem is to tell the kids to go home and watch videos at night. So the teachers can't teach it over the course of a 90 minute class but the kids are supposed to go home and watch videos. You can't even find the right video on Kahn Academy because MVP is so offed up. It takes hours to locate, watch and understand the concepts. You can go on GHHS math department website and see the links right there. They aren't even trying to disguise it.
There's a couple reasons this has been rolled out in WCPSS - first, the teachers don't teach, they "facilitate" - the kids are to work in groups and decide what they "think" the concepts mean and what they "think" the correct answer is. In schools where it's working, the teachers are still teaching. WCPSS doesn't want that because then they can put anyone in the classroom.
Second reason is the "achievement gap" - a lot of parents (myself included) have dropped their child down to the academic level of math from honors. My daughter isn't going into any STEM field, and will probably be an English (or similar) major. So this is no big deal for her - however it is a big deal for our kids who want s STEM career and now either won't have a good background in the concepts or simply have decided not to go that route. But back to the achievement gap - with so many kids dropping from honors to academic, WCPSS can say "we closed the achievement gap". Crazy, huh?
A similar ELA curriculum is being rolled out in the elementary school. My sister teaches fourth grade. The curriculum assumes (as does MPV math) that the child "got" the concepts the first time they were explained, even if that was one, two or three years ago. For instance, an assignment for the 4th graders was to write a first person narrative. As my sister said "how many 9 year olds do you think remember what that means? But the lesson plan gives you NO TIME to give them any context or background on it. It also assumes that their 3rd grade teacher did a really great job explaining it or wasn't out sick the week the it was supposed to be taught, etc. We all know things happen and maybe that teacher wasn't that great or whatever".
I will say that my sister also showed me the directions that the kids are supposed to read and understand themselves with no assistance and I can tell you for sure 75% of adults would not comprehend them.
All this to say if I had a kid in public school right now I would be paying very, very close attention to what's going on because they roll this stuff out, teachers hate it but don't make a stink because that's how they roll, kids struggle and the parents assume it is the kids....if I had a small child(ten) right now I'd be homeschooling them, full stop.
I am so, so thankful on an almost daily basis that in 3 short years I will be done with public school and WCPSS. MVP math has made me and a lot of people consider sending our kids to private school. I know a girl who is genius level IQ whose hair started falling out over MPV. I broached with my daughter going to Gibbons after this year and she did consider it but ultimately decided to stick it out and take the lower math. And when it came time to register for next year we really waffled on the math but I finally pulled the trigger and did it and am so relieved.
Oh and the cherry on this ****ty sundae is that my daughter's teacher quit (due to MVP) at the end of the first quarter - no warning, just didn't come back one day. She has had SEVEN (7) teachers total this semester for math. And now they aren't really MVP so she's finally getting the concepts but she likely won't pass the final. But WCPSS has gone on record saying no one will fail. She hasn't learned a blessed thing but she's going to pass the class. These are your future architects, aviation engineers, etc etc.
MVP was rolled out to the Math 1 kids last year in 8th grade. It was a rocky start, but after a couple weeks my daughter actually liked it. But again, the teacher was doing more teaching than she was supposed to do - not just "facilitating". My daughter liked working in a group and felt that was helpful. This year the group dynamic has turned into a Lord of the Flies situation.
And from what I have heard, the MVP math 1 curriculum was fairly solid but the MVP math 2 curriculum is really poorly written for the teachers and the students. As in, they reference things that have never EVER been taught. As in, the kids are only taught to do something on a calculator and then when the test comes it's "calculator inactive" - I've heard this complaint from students AND teachers.
Teachers? Blaine Dillard, who is the GHHS parents spearheading the local movement against MVP, sent a survey out to teachers (which they specifically were told by WCPSS not to answer, but he got a couple hundred responses anyway) and the vast majority of them say the curriculum does not work the way it is planned. There were some who liked the concept, and to be sure the concept of kids using math for "real world" situations is a good one - but the vast majority said it just isn't working. You have to understand concepts and have them taught to you before you can relate them to the real world. MVP is also "get it today because we're moving on tomorrow" and that just doesn't work with math. You need to understand math and THEN build on it.
And by the way if you are interested in more in depth stuff you can feel free to contact Blaine, he will be happy to talk to anyone about this.
MVP is terrible. Kids hate it. Teachers hate it. Parent surveyed over 400 middle & high WCPSS teachers on MVP & all quotes are in parent complaint documents on parent Facebook anti-MVP page (1400 members). The only ones who like it are the uninformed non-math certified BOE members, especially Jim Martin (term is up 2020). All BOE terms are up in 2020 and the public wants them all out. This BOE is messing up WCPSS royally.
This BOE plans to reinstate bussing based on race soon too (will try to say it is "socioeconomic" which is still in violation of 2007 Supreme Court decision). Parents are already securing attorneys for when they move on this. The math curriculum review committee the BOE compiled only had about 24% math content people on it. All other committee members had non-math degrees.
Kids and parents want traditional math textbooks but this BOE & this super Cathy Moore won't give it to them. There is huge public outcry against MVP and it has failed in many school districts across the nation. Math proficiency scores declined significantly at the school at which the MVP creator teaches. The primary creator of MVP, Travis Lemon, teaches math at American Fork Junior High (AFJr) in Alpine, UT. AFJr school feeds into high school, American Fork High School (AFH). That high school does NOT use MVP. It should be a red flag that the very high school in MVP creator, Lemon's home town, is not using his MVP curriculum. Math scores at the junior high where MVP creator teaches MVP, have DECLINED (see attached chart from ). The two attached charts (from sources: publicschoolreview.com and utahschoolgrades.schools.utah.gov) show that math scores at AFJr went from above 80% math proficiency pre-2013 MVP, down to 60% math proficient post-MVP, indicating a sharp decline after MVP was implemented. Their recent math scores have continued to decline and they were at 58% math proficient in 2018. Performance at this school represents the IDEAL scenario (expert MVP author teacher, all teachers on board, on site expert, real time PD, etc), and still...results are declining. None or very few other Utah high schools are using MVP in math.
2) WCPSS, NC - North Carolina Department of Instruction reported a WCPSS decline in Math 1 EOC scores in 2018, the year after MVP was implemented. In 2017/18 WCPSS Scores in Math 1 EOC dropped to 65% proficiency, down from 74% proficient the previous school year. (See image below). Source: NC School Report Card 2018 WCPSS Math 1 EOC. I believe the school board indicated that scores in Math 1 EOC increased from 2017 to 2018, but the above DPI data says the opposite. I believe the board indicated the reason for DPI shown decline was that middle school student scores were included by DPI. However, even if middle school scores were included, that does not negate a direct correlation between MVP use and score decline, because MVP was used to prepare those middle school students for that Math 1 EOC.
3) Berkeley High, CA - Berkeley High began using MVP in 2015. Since then, their math scores declined and flat-lined. In 2017, two years after MVP, their math proficiency declined to only 41% proficient. See 2017 scores here: CA Dept of Ed- Berkeley (post MVP). Scores were much higher prior to MVP use there. See: CA Dept of Ed -Berkeley (Pre-MVP). Also see article, "The Math Crisis at Berkeley High". Also see article, "Math Department Concerned by High Failure Rates" I've also attached a screenshot from a Berkeley, CA engineer math tutor where she states she is frustrated with MVP after trying to help Berkeley students.
4) Modesto City Schools, CA - Adopted MVP 2014-15 by several high schools. Some did not adopt until 2017. California Department of Education data shows that in 2018, five years after adopting MVP, Modesto City High School's math proficiency dropped to only 22% proficient in math. See CA Dept of Ed and Schooldigger.com. Fred C. Beyer High School in Modesto adopted MVP in 2017, and their 2018 math test results showed only 29% of students were proficient in math. James C. Enochs High School adopted MVP in 2014-15, and in 2016-17 only 38% were proficient or advanced. At Enochs, 62% of high school students were BELOW proficient level in math. See USNews.com - Enochs High. Additionally, the Modesto City Schools School Board President and NASA Software Engineer, John Walker, is currently removing MVP in that school district due to declining math scores. He has compiled various charts on his Twitter page showing how MVP is particularly harmful to low-income students, African-American students, Hispanic students, and English language learners. (See attached Modesto chart).
5) Jefferson County, WV - MVP was implemented in Jefferson High School in 2013/14 in Math 1, Math 2, and Math 3. The West Virginia Department of Education web site shows that in 2016, two years after MVP was implemented, 11th grade math proficiency declined to 22%. See [url]https://zoomwv.k12.wv.us/Dashboard/dashboard/7310[/url] . In 2013, prior to MVP use, math proficiency at Jefferson HS was 60% proficient. See [url]https://www.publicschoolreview.com/jefferson-high-school-profile/25442[/url]. Jefferson HS has experienced a steady decline in math proficiency since implementing MVP in Math 1, 2, and 3 five years ago.
6) Chapel Hill, NC - High School ACT Math scores have declined steadily since MVP math implementation. ACT math scores declined from 69% meeting ACT math benchmark in 2013 pre-MVP, down to 63% meeting math benchmark in 2017. See attached chart summarizing NC DPI information.
Last edited by mathteacherwake; 07-22-2019 at 02:33 PM..
MVP Math is a progressive discovery math pedagogy and is not a curriculum. The implementation has been a failure in Wake County with thousands of students failing to get a sound math education. As someone noted earlier, the WCPSS BOE is trying to use it to close the achievement gap but it isn't working. Disadvantaged kids are falling further behind while kids whose parents can afford it go to a tutor. If I had to do it over again, I would send my kids to a charter or private school that doesn't use MVP. The top charter and private schools in the nation do not use MVP or Discovery Math.
What exactly is the perceived end goal of MVP? It seems some think it's a political maneuver to falsely equalize schools in the county, while others think it's a ploy to remove math teachers from the classroom?
One? Both? Neither?
I'd also be interested in learning more about the race based busing mentioned above.
is MVP this "Ready, Set, Go" manner of teaching? My rising freshman daughter had that, and collaborative math work in the class. and really didn't like the collaborative part, since the "non-math" kids (of whatever race/socioeconomic) dragged the rest down. But I think her teacher must be one of the very few good at it.
Just like college isn't right for everyone, more advanced math isn't either. If we can get them out of high school really knowing + - / * and the ability to do a word problem, that's pretty much all is needed for 90% of folks.
is MVP this "Ready, Set, Go" manner of teaching? My rising freshman daughter had that, and collaborative math work in the class. and really didn't like the collaborative part, since the "non-math" kids (of whatever race/socioeconomic) dragged the rest down. But I think her teacher must be one of the very few good at it.
Just like college isn't right for everyone, more advanced math isn't either. If we can get them out of high school really knowing + - / * and the ability to do a word problem, that's pretty much all is needed for 90% of folks.
My daughter didn't really have a problem with Math 1 either. Math 2 and 3 books are full of errors. There are other factors in play though - like principals who put the hammer down and threaten teachers who actually "TEACH" instead of "FACILITATE". That's one of the reasons we are seeing some schools having more problems than others with MVP.
I agree with you about the math needed for 90% of people, even had this conversation with a friend who is from Europe and scratches his head about the teeth gnashing regarding math in this country. If you need it, take the classes - if you don't - don't.
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