Confusion on Right of Way rules (DMV, law, legal)

[NC_Driver]

Two cars are stopped at stop signs at opposite sides of an intersection (facing each other). One wants to turn left, the other right. The one turning left came to a stop first. When the traffic on the through street clears, which car has right of way to turn first?

Some think that the car turning right does, but my understanding is that the "right turn rule" is only used to distinguish the right of way when two cars stop simultaneously. If the cars arrive at different times, the first one to stop has right of way, no matter what direction the two cars are turning. Is this correct?

[lovebrentwood]

The person turning right has the right of way.

Of course, if lefty has a bigger car, he doesn't care. He just goes. But if there's an accident, righty is out of luck because lefty probably doesn't have a license anyway. Or it's suspended.

So the answer is: Be careful.

[ErrntTryAgain]

Originally Posted by lovebrentwood

The person turning right has the right of way.

Wrong. The original poster was correct that the car turning right has right of way only when the two cars come to a stop at the same time. In other words, the "First car rule" has precedence over the "Same time rule" (which gives ROW to the right turning vehicle)

[URL]http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/driver_services/drivershandbook/download/NCDL_English.pdf[/URL]

Page 58

Originally Posted by lovebrentwood

So the answer is: Be careful.

This is definitely true, as there are a lot of people like lovebrentwood who are not familiar with the law and will hit you when you have the right of way.

[lovebrentwood]

I will not hit you.

The law is different elsewhere.

Doesn't matter. I've been here 16 years. If I'm turning left, I've never seen a person taking a right to stop and give me the right of way; they just go. Everyone is from elsewhere.

I always let everyone go first.

There are also laws that say you must stop at stop signs, and I've seen little evidence that anyone pays attention to that law.

So you're right, the answer is: Be careful.

AND...the reason the law is different elsewhere is because who is to decide who was first or if they arrived simultaneously at the intersection? Does simultaneously mean at the exact millisecond? Or what if one showed up half a second later? Who is to judge? I'd rather not judge. I let everyone else go. No accidents yet, and I've been driving a looooooooong time.

[tabbcat]

I've always understood that the person who has right of way is the person who will clear traffic. I.e. I've come to this situation in a turnaround before (not a crossroads, which are generally guided by traffic lights), and rights have the right of way over my turning left, because I'm in a turn lane and not "in traffic".

If it's a stop sign and not a traffic light where both people have green, I would yield to the right turn.

[TerpsFan09]

Originally Posted by tabbcat

I've always understood that the person who has right of way is the person who will clear traffic. I.e. I've come to this situation in a turnaround before (not a crossroads, which are generally guided by traffic lights), and rights have the right of way over my turning left, because I'm in a turn lane and not "in traffic".

I've never heard any reasoning like that before. What is the basis for it?

Originally Posted by tabbcat

If it's a stop sign and not a traffic light where both people have green, I would yield to the right turn.

This is the exact opposite of my understanding. If there were a stop light at the intersection that just turned green, and absent an no arrows or signs specifying otherwise, then the right turning car has right of way.

At an intersection with stop signs, the car waiting the longest goes first.

[tabbcat]

Originally Posted by TerpsFan09

I've never heard any reasoning like that before. What is the basis for it?

Safety!

Originally Posted by TerpsFan09

This is the exact opposite of my understanding. If there were a stop light at the intersection that just turned green, and absent an no arrows or signs specifying otherwise, then the right turning car has right of way.

From the NCDOT Handbook:
A green arrow means that you have a "protected" turning movement with no other conflicting traffic in the intersection except U-turn traffic that should yield to all other traffic entering the intersection.

Now...for no traffic signals...only stop signs In intersections without traffic signs or signals, the right-of-way rules state that:

• the vehicle already in the intersection has the right–of–way ahead of any car that has not yet entered;
• when two or more vehicles reach an intersection at the same time, the car to the right has the right-of-way;
• a vehicle with the right-of-way may move straight ahead or, if legal and after signaling, turn right or left; and
• even with the right-of-way, be careful to avoid hitting other vehicles and pedestrians.

http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/graphics/driversHandbook/basicDriveIntersection.gif (broken link)

When two facing vehicles approach an intersection at the same time, the right-of-way rules are not much help. Both drivers can move straight ahead or turn right. If one driver is going straight while the other wants to turn left, the driver who wants to turn must wait. The driver who wants to turn left must give the proper signal and wait until the turn can be made safely. Therefore, in this case, the driver who is traveling straight ahead has the right–of–way. Never change lanes while you are moving straight ahead through an intersection.

[TerpsFan09]

Then why did you say:

If it's a stop sign and not a traffic light where both people have green, I would yield to the right turn.

[MikeJaquish]

Anyone who takes a stand on right of way is liable to hit or get hit.

I make eye contact, and often won't pull out from either position unless I get visual confirmation that the other person is actively engaged in driving and it appears that they will not smack me.

[tabbcat]

Because that's what I would do I would yield to the person turning right at a stop sign, if I were turning left, and we approached at the same time. See the last example from the NCDOT. Most states consider "turning right" as "driving straight" because you're traveling in a non-obtrusive manner to oncoming traffic. Left turns are obtrusive. Now, I'm only a Michigan lawyer, but that's how I would read the regulations. And as Mike says, traffic rules don't mean a damn if you're dealing with people who aren't paying attention. A friendly wave and signaling your intent will get you through safely!

Edit to clear things up The rule is clear, if you're approaching before the other car, you have the right to go first.