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I am considering moving to an apartment in Downtown Durham, but was wondering if this might be a bad move. Currently, there doesn't seem to be too much going on, but I see that there is massive development happening. I am weary of paying around $300,000 for a +/-1000sq apartment and not know what's going to happen five-years down the line when I would sell. I am assuming that, with the redevelopment of Downtown, property values will rise at least somewhat, but who knows?
Specifically, we are looking at places in the Durham Kress and places close-by. I really don't know if this will be a good move. Currently we are renting an apartment at $1,500 a month, so I am assuming paying a mortgage will be better than renting, but again, I don't really know.
Anyone have any advice on Downtown Durham apartments?
I honestly see a lot of great changes in Durham's future. With all of the recent changes near the DBAP and the warehouse district to the large amount of investors beginning to buy up all the old properties in the rest of the surrounding areas. Remember that the majority of RTP which is the world's largest research area is in Durham.
Are you moving to an apartment or buying a condo? I think you mean buying a condo...If so, I think right now is a great time to buy in downtown as there is a great future for that area...You will have to wait it out for a couple years but with patience, the area is gonna be very nice...
Are you moving to an apartment or buying a condo? I think you mean buying a condo...If so, I think right now is a great time to buy in downtown as there is a great future for that area...You will have to wait it out for a couple years but with patience, the area is gonna be very nice...
Yeah, sorry, I meant a condo. I'm from Manhattan, and people typically refer to anything as an apartment - from the rent-controlled roach motels to the $10,000,000 places on 5th Ave. Sorry for the confusion.
I am considering moving to an apartment in Downtown Durham, but was wondering if this might be a bad move. Currently, there doesn't seem to be too much going on, but I see that there is massive development happening. I am weary of paying around $300,000 for a +/-1000sq apartment and not know what's going to happen five-years down the line when I would sell. I am assuming that, with the redevelopment of Downtown, property values will rise at least somewhat, but who knows?
Specifically, we are looking at places in the Durham Kress and places close-by. I really don't know if this will be a good move. Currently we are renting an apartment at $1,500 a month, so I am assuming paying a mortgage will be better than renting, but again, I don't really know.
Anyone have any advice on Downtown Durham apartments?
First off: I'm very bullish (no pun intended) on Durham's downtown. The projections are for significant residential growth over the last couple of years, and there's about $300m in (mostly private-sector) investment, including American Tobacco and West Village.
So what's on the market? There's condos over at American Tobacco, which will be on the market over the next couple of years (in both rehabbed buildings and new construction) -- for the first phase, in a nearly 150-year old factory, there's a waitlist of 300 names reportedly for the 50 units. But, hundreds more units are on the way in new construction, right next to the DBAP ballpark and the new performing arts center.
So: what about the Durham Kress? First off, I'm not a realtor or otherwise in the real estate trade, just a nosy guy who runs a blog about Durham. That said, here are some things to consider.
First, Durham Kress was being sold as a shell building, as you probably know, so you have to do upfit yourself for interior walls, etc. If you're a first-time homebuyer or aren't looking forward to doing a lot of work with your GC... something to consider. (From looking at the web site, it now looks like they're selling the few units left as already being finished, which reduces this issue, but correct me if I'm wrong. Also, Ellen Cassilly is a well-respected local architect.)
Second, the firm behind Durham Kress -- Greenfire Development -- is a good firm to be working with in downtown R/E right now. They've assembled a significant chunk of downtown Durham over the last couple of years, including the signature Hill/CCB art deco skyscraper in Durham, now the SunTrust building, which will become a 4-star boutique hotel/spa by 2009. Their pockets are deep and they've done good work on the old Baldwin Dept. Store conversion, so these guys aren't fly by night.
Property values in downtown *are* going up quickly, with things changing hands briskly on the commercial side. How is residential? That's a good question. Right now, there are few residential units within the one-way 'downtown loop,' and to ATHD and WV are coming online just outside the loop, so I don't know if they're good comps. Unit sales are pretty infrequent due to the small housing stock size, though there seems to be plenty of interest in units that do come on market. A conversion of a building at 111 Orange to 1st floor commercial/retail, 2nd floor loft has a contract pending through Maverick Partners -- that could be a very good comp.
Risks I'd consider? Only notable one is that the Kress is right now one of the most eastern of the residential projects going on, which means you're a block or so further from the shops, dining, etc. happening. On the other hand, American Tobacco is spreading in a big way over from Blackwell to Mangum St., with the new performing arts center to boot -- both will be open in the next 18 months, so "happening" things are certainly coming.
Personally, given Greenfire's rep, the ATHD expansion, the completion of the streetscape project, and the hotel coming in -- I'm pretty sure that downtown living won't be a "bust." Whether it's a runaway hit for appreciation? All depends! Ultimately, I think you have to look at your tolerance at risk and what your time horizon is (since the longer the latter is, the better your odds no matter what.)
Incidentally, other projects you should check out for comparison: Trinity Lofts and Trinity Place; Mangum 506; The Wesley at Mangum Place; the aforementioned American Tobacco project. I've got updates on some of these over at my blog; the Endangered Durham blog is also a very good source for history and news around downtown, particularly on issues of historic preservation.
Thanks for all the answers, and especially to Bull City Rising, for that very detailed response. I'll certainly check out the properties you mentioned. It looks like we might take the plunge and get a condo in Downtown.
Just one more question - I've never bought a home from a developer before - is there a little wiggle room in the pricing, or are the prices basically set?
Thanks for all the answers, and especially to Bull City Rising, for that very detailed response. I'll certainly check out the properties you mentioned. It looks like we might take the plunge and get a condo in Downtown.
Just one more question - I've never bought a home from a developer before - is there a little wiggle room in the pricing, or are the prices basically set?
It never hurts to ask, but unless you've done your research and give them reasons why the property isn't worth what they're asking, or why you are offering what you are offering, you probably won't have much luck
Thanks for all the answers, and especially to Bull City Rising, for that very detailed response. I'll certainly check out the properties you mentioned. It looks like we might take the plunge and get a condo in Downtown.
Just one more question - I've never bought a home from a developer before - is there a little wiggle room in the pricing, or are the prices basically set?
Normally, I would agree with Coltank -- most developers won't do a lot of wheel-and-deal. However, Greenfire is a local firm, not a big tract developer like KB, Centex, Toll, etc. My guess is that they would be open to negotiating -- it never hurts to ask. This may be especially true in that there's only a few units left at Kress, so the developer may want to move those out and close them out.
Also, not sure if you're working with a buyer's agent, but that may be one way to protect your rights at no cost to you. You might contact Downtown Durham, Inc. (a local business org.) and ask them if they know of any realtors who have represented several buyers for downtown properties.
Good luck in this endeavour...I think it will turn out to be a good choice. The options for things to do in and around downtown Durham are increasing every year. It's still a couple steps behind Chapel Hill and Raleigh's downtowns, but it's quickly catching up and may even overtake them. The stuff to do in the Brightleaf Square and American Tobacco Districts alone will make it worthwhile.
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That said, here are some things to consider.
