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To add more to the general direction of this post, its worth looking at this report, which in great detail talks about domestic migration. It supports many of the points I made, which is that there has been a domestic out-migration bubble and raleigh Durham got the brunt of it.
I think some of you are misreading me here. I'll repeat: I'm not naming specific groups of people. I use the terms "Yankee", "Northerners", and "Carpetbaggers" loosely to describe the general shift of population from one area to another. The real monster was the housing bubble and the long-term effects of a dwindling middle class and the widening disparity it brings. That and the US economy is now almost entirely based on real estate and mortgage debt. Why do you think the US government is blowing untold trillions on the banking, lending, and housing industries and not the auto industry? Its because we no longer make money building things. We only work economically in buying increasingly expensive houses. This is a broader subject, but the indication is that all cities will eventually become overpriced and there is a sort of domino effect in the works.
Perhaps there should be more effort in learning how to reverse this trend so that some degree of social stability will be possible.
This is a broader subject, but the indication is that all cities will eventually become overpriced and there is a sort of domino effect in the works.
Perhaps there should be more effort in learning how to reverse this trend so that some degree of social stability will be possible.
I don't think the concept of free and open markets would allow for such social engineering. It's more of a "pie in the sky" dream for some. Typically expressed by those trying to recapture their experience growing up or as I like to call it "catching lightning in a bottle". Once they realize this isn't possible, negativity soon follows.
I moved here last fall from New Mexico, I work in Durham and we live in south Durham. I was in NM only 3.5 years, New Mexico is a whole different world from here, but before that I had spent most of my life in Michigan, with some time in Illinois. I grew up in a small town in Northern lower Michigan, went to school in state too.
I first came down to NC in 1976 and have always wanted to move here since then. My sister actually did, she came down to to go to UNC in the late 1970s and never left. I interviewed a couple of times here but nothing ever came of it until last year.
I will say that it is not quite the place I thought it would be, very "Yankeefied", but still has some of the charm I remember from long ago. But the cookie cutter areas like Cary, while "nice", just aren't for me. But the south in general is not "what it used to be", so many things have changed in the last 30 years, I think so much more so than the North.
If things work out, I will never leave here and would like to retire in the area, I just hope it works out that way.
My question is: where can you live that has quality schools, good weather (no harsh winters), suitable shopping, affordable housing (~300k range), no bumper-to-bumper traffic, decent jobs in High-Tech, culture/history and it is not over-grown and/or over-developed and/or over-taxed?
Once upon a time, that was here. But, as with any "Utopia", once it gets "on the map" and people begin swarming there from everywhere, suddenly things (except the climate, or course) start to change, usually for the worse. Specifically, cost of living tends to go up and congestion/over-development DEFINITELY goes up.
What you need is a crystal ball to know where the "next great place" is going to be and move there before it gets written up by Money magazine or Forbes --once it does, you've got a few good years before everything everyone was trying to get away from starts to follow them there.
The thing is, you have to look at it from the perspective of those who don't have the financial means to compete with "Newcomers", whoever they are. Let's keep the argument generic for a second. Call them Californians, "Yankees", snowbird retirees, or whatever. Put yourself in the position of the people who've lived in a certain place their whole lives, only to be slowly displaced by others moving in with more cash in their pockets. And there is nothing you can personally do about it. Do you blame them if there is some degree of bitterness? That's just human nature for you. And again, its been happening forever, from displaced native Americans, displaced native Californians, and now displaced Southerners.
I agree with you.
The northeasterners that are coming south have been displaced from their homes (or lifestyles) by newcomers, too. Often those newcomers are new to America so they are not called transplants - the terms used for them are nastier! And those northerners are bitter too. So we should all understand the resentment flet by others.
I agree that we are looking at big societal issues that cause these waves of migration. But those issues are hard to grasp- it is easier to "hate on" Iranians, Mexicans, Yankees, whatever.
My issue with your point of view is the criticism of suburbia. It is bland. It is homogenized. It can be found all over America. You find it wherever there is a concentration of white collar jobs. It is the American Dream.
But, take a closer look. There are all sorts of people in suburbia, and in suburbia here in the Raleigh area, you will find racial and ethnic diversity. My subdivision here is certainly more diverse than my neighborhood on Long Island. And mine is not the only one.
If you seek Culture (with a capital "c") you need to be near a 1st tier city, with the population base to support it. If you are willign to trade that for a cheaper cost of living, Raleigh will be a good fit.
If you think all the people are fake here, then you don't know too many suburbanites. Try as any of us might, we will still be touched by illness, accidents, job loss, divorce... all those things still happen to us. And great things happen to us, too. As time passes neighbors & co-workers become friends, and then we are a community, despite the architectural shortcomings of our surroundings.
I don't think the concept of free and open markets would allow for such social engineering.
But the problem is that what's going on now IS in fact social engineering with a captitalist twist. As I mentioned before, the country's two largest home builders own huge chunks of land in TX and NC, which right now are the fastest growing areas. This is no accident, and if things unfold as they have been for the past few decades, these areas will be rapidly built out and inhabited with the help of clever marketing and further shrill pieces.
But... the one caveat is that home prices are dropping dramatically in both the Northeast and West Coast. The report did show an almost 75% drop in domestic migration in 2008. I'd say 2009 will be even more so, and in addition, once prices rise in NC while falling in the Northeast, the delta will be reached and the pressure placed on those in the Northeast will find less reason to move. Thus this economic cycle might in many ways solve some of these problems. Like I mentioned early on, I wasn't totally blown away by the prices in Raleigh. They were not what I'd call cheap. Not for what you get, and not what you can get for far less elsewhere. So I think the freewheeling days of "Oh- its so cheap down there- let's move site unseen!" are over.
If you think all the people are fake here, then you don't know too many suburbanites. Try as any of us might, we will still be touched by illness, accidents, job loss, divorce... all those things still happen to us. And great things happen to us, too. As time passes neighbors & co-workers become friends, and then we are a community, despite the architectural shortcomings of our surroundings.
I'm not badmouthing suburbanites. I live in a suburb of the Bay Area myself. But in my suburb, you can walk to town, shop at a 70 year old hardware store, buy shoes at an actual shoe store, paint your house whatever color you want, and live in any number of different styled houses. Yet what I find when I either visit home or a lot of Southern cities is a sea of sameness and limited choices. Its like every exit near my parents is the same: Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes, Mcdonalds, and so on. It doesn't HAVE to be like that. It seems like communities are now sold as commodities with community planning being determined totally by corportate interest.
What I'm saying here is that there is a choice and I think too many people have been looking with their blinders one: Home Prices and cost of living versus what I'd consider more important reasons, like what type of area is/was there before it got bulldozed for Mcmansions.
Here's another article taken from the same site. Its conclusion is that Raleigh is by national standards moderately unaffordable, standing at around 3.7 out of a 6, with 6 being severely unaffordable. Interesting read.
Sliverbox, thanks for the links to that newgeography site! Really interesting stuff there!
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--once it does, you've got a few good years before everything everyone was trying to get away from starts to follow them there.
