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Frankly, you couldn't pay me to spend 300K on a cookier cutter home with vinyl siding in the burbs.
What is hurting the condo market in many places, including Atlanta and I assume Raleigh, is you can find yourself a single family house with lots of character and fiber cement siding for the same price or better than the condos. It doesn't have to be cookie cutter and vinyl siding. In my search for a new house in the 'burbs near Raleigh I am finding many great houses for around $300K.
What is hurting the condo market in many places, including Atlanta and I assume Raleigh, is you can find yourself a single family house with lots of character and fiber cement siding for the same price or better than the condos. It doesn't have to be cookie cutter and vinyl siding. In my search for a new house in the 'burbs near Raleigh I am finding many great houses for around $300K.
but this is like comparing apples to oranges.....house in the burbs vs. condo in the heart of downtown....not only lifestyle wise but location wise....
if this were the case and people preferred the burbs, this wouldn't be hurting the condo market just now....it would be all the time
but this is like comparing apples to oranges.....house in the burbs vs. condo in the heart of downtown....not only lifestyle wise but location wise....
if this were the case and people preferred the burbs, this wouldn't be hurting the condo market just now....it would be all the time
Very true. People who want to live downtown aren't looking at housing issues in the same way that people who prefer suburbs do. It is apples and oranges whether it's condos, townhouses or single family homes. In all cases in Raleigh, the DT locations are more expensive. Almost all DT buyers understand that but make a conscious decision to live where they want to live and usually trade-off size for location.
For condo dwellers specifically, even the type of condos available in the city verses the suburban areas are different. Suburban condos are more likely to mimic suburban apartment complexes on large plots of land. They are more likely to have unit access from exterior corridors and more likely to be low rise. DT condos are more likely to be on small infill plots of land, have interior corridors, open garage parking and be mid to high rise construction. Urban condos typically integrate in their immediate surroundings while suburban projects are typically set apart from their immediate surroundings by property buffers.
but this is like comparing apples to oranges.....house in the burbs vs. condo in the heart of downtown....not only lifestyle wise but location wise....
if this were the case and people preferred the burbs, this wouldn't be hurting the condo market just now....it would be all the time
I agree to an extent, but I could also find a nice little home in a downtwon singel family residential neighborhood like Mordecai for less that $300K. Once you get into some of the higher end conds that are up in the $400k and $500K many options in the SFR neighborhood of Oakwood are priced in that range too.
I do think condo living is a lifestyle choice, but SFR options do exist downtown at and below the current condo prices, especially when you consider that a $300K condo will also come with monthly association fees that could otherwise be put towards a mortgage.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a condo hater. I love that they have built them in DT Raleigh. Some of the older places are in prime locations and had wise price poitns for the time period they were built (Think Paramount). However, I think too many of the new condos built catered to the luxury market and are priced so high that it doesn't make sense given I could find a historic home in downtown with a little land for the same price or cheaper.
of course it all comes down to people's personal preferences.........i know some ppl that live in downtown historic homes because they want to be in downtown (location preference) while having more space and a yard......on the other hand, i know those that still prefer condos because they want to be able to just be right there in the middle of the action at street level plus they don't need the space and don't want a yard to maintain......
the condo dwellers that i've ran across are mostly two demographics - working professionals without kids or older near retirees.....i haven't see any condo dweller with kids....
I just wanted to mention that, while I realize that condo living is not for me at this point in my life, I'm certainly not a condo hater! If I wasn't planning to start a family sometime in the future, I'd probably like the idea of condo living.
Someone could show me nice, large, well-constructed houses out in the suburbs for a ridiculously inexpensive price and I will never bite. It's not about the size of the house, it's about the location. I just prefer to live in a more urban environment. I grew up in a "suburb" of Miami that, by Triangle standards, many people would considere to be more urban due to the congestion, traffic, proximity to shopping, etc. So to me, the suburbs in this area are really far away from everything, and it is definitely not for me.
I also like the idea of living in a smaller space. I have been to friends' houses that are 3,000+ sqft and wonder what the heck I would do with that kind of space. I want a simpler life, not one filled with extra space to store extra stuff that I don't need. That is just my personal opinion, and I have no problem with anyone who feels they need the space. So for me, where I live is far less about how big the dwelling is or how many luxury features it has, and instead it is much more about the dwelling being located in close proximity to the areas that I spend much of my free time.
I am glad that downtown Raleigh has somewhat of a variety of housing choices. I look forward to even more variety in the future (urban lofts in some of the underutilized warehouses would be awesome ).
I am glad that downtown Raleigh has somewhat of a variety of housing choices. I look forward to even more variety in the future (urban lofts in some of the underutilized warehouses would be awesome).
You just described The Cotton Mill. There are some fantastic (and sometimes huge) condos in that building.
I think the condo market is a bit..or maybe a lot.. overbuilt. Condo owners are more likely to be single or empty nesters that have a busy life, travel a lot for their jobs, and not as home as many as others.
The condos offer the least value per SF, but that skyline and view is what people pay for. The association fees are also quite high in some places. As the economy and market has been down for the demograpic of a lot of upscale condo owners, hence the glut on the market.
Older historic homes in premium parts of town are also cheaper than they have been in the past. Lots of people were remodeling and trying to "flip", but the market turned and left a lot of people stuck with houses they couldn't sell.
The condos offer the least value per SF, but that skyline and view is what people pay for. The association fees are also quite high in some places.
Again...for those of us who live in a condo DT, this is not the way decisions are made. In these condos, it's not all about price per sf. In addition to my condo's actual square footage, I have access to a pool, outdoor kitchen, a gym and a community room with its own kitchen and billiard room.
I also have 2 secured garage spaces, a dedicated storage room for my unit and a 12x12 terrace. All of this is packaged in a new secure building property that doesn't need to be updated. For me and others, the "value" is about more than just my individual condo's s.f.
but this is like comparing apples to oranges.....house in the burbs vs. condo in the heart of downtown....not only lifestyle wise but location wise....
if this were the case and people preferred the burbs, this wouldn't be hurting the condo market just now....it would be all the time
I did not mean to imply everyone would move from condo to single family simply based on price, nor would they move from urban to 'burbs. I was just trying to make an observation after reading another post. There is a balancing act with pricing for most people. Condo's can make financial sense in some situations and may very well be the preferred choice of housing options for many people. But there is a good number of people who weigh the price and association fees and when that tipping point is reached, they make different choices.
I made the observation about the 'burb houses because that is where I am looking now and because someone made it seem like it is all cookie cutter vinyl houses outside the city. I am willing to bet people can now find houses within the city limits and all around the downtown area that are better value than the condos.
When the economy is flying high, condo's may very well sell well. When the economy slows down, or in this case tanks, condo's are the very first to feel the pain.
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There are some fantastic (and sometimes huge) condos in that building.
