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My home has a zero lot line. I do not "own" my yard but have exclusive use of it.
There are plenty of "zero lot line" subdivisions where the homeowners own the yard. Sounds like you aren't dealing with HOA-burdened property but rather a condo.
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If it really matters to you, I am in Ocala, FL. Please don't make assumptions about my HOA when you clearly have no clue what goes on here.
If you are an attorney in CA as you claim, stick to what you know there and don't try to assume how things are done here.
Funny you would butt in on a California thread only to make ad hominem comments and then whine if someone from out-of-state makes a comment in the thread you posted. You seem to have confused geographic location with state(s) of licensure.
I don't assume how things are done in Florida. I'm well-aware of how things are done there because of experience and regular communications with other colleagues practicing in Florida. People with your issues live in every state and "love HOAs" at least as long as they are the ones "in charge". The management company and HOA attorney trade groups are active in every state. The industry engages in the same unscrupulous practices in every state. The industry lobbies to leave homeowners "soft targets" in every state.
Look! No elephants in the trees! What a great job you must be doing as an HOA/condo board member!
Last edited by IC_deLight; 10-21-2013 at 10:27 PM..
Pride in their homes? Believe it or not, people can live just fine without a HOA. My parents live in a town where the average home price is 1 million. Their house and neighbors houses appraised at 1.1 mil. No HOAS. Guess what? People still take care of their homes.
If someone wants to agree to it that's their problem. I just cannot fathom the logic in agreeing to live somewhere like that.
A guy that has a million dollar home is not gonna have some POS jalopy rusting in the weeds nor is he gonna paint his house pink with yellow trim and have some clown music blasting while drinking beer on the tailgate of his truck.
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Originally Posted by lemonegg
But that is the point, there IS NOT plenty of non HOA areas to live in. Where I live every neighborhood is part of a HOA. Period. I suppose I could move far out into the country, or in very low income neighborhoods. Guessing those areas don't have HOAs. So to say no one is forced to live in a HOA community is not true. I don't have a choice but to live in a HOA community because every community has a HOA. I am equally amazed people can not or refuse to grasp that fact.
However I have to say I don't mind my HOA. For a reasonable fee they keep all of the public areas looking nice. I don't have a problem with their rules. But I don't buy into the theory that the HOA is the only thing that is stopping people from parking on their lawns, from painting their houses <insert your worse nightmare color here>, loading their yards with junk, etc. etc. etc. If the HOA was to disband today, the neighborhood would be just fine and property values may even go up.
You have a choice. It's just one you don't want to take. In some cases HOA is what stops people from doing stupid stuff otherwise I can guarantee you one of your neighbors new or old will paint his house some garish color or have some broken down car on the driveway or just flat out not care about the appearances of their house. Do you to think that the people who are dirty slobs live only in non HOA areas? What do you think happens when nice neighbor Bob moves out and full of hate Bill moves in? Bill is more worried about partying with his buds at all hours of the night and he has the muscle car that. He is one day gonna fix it up but waiting to get the money together so its gonna sit
I looked at this house and it was beautiful. I mean you could see the true pride in ownership. Too bad the house across the way looked like Sandford and Son were living there. I did not buy the house simply because I didn't want that craphole to be my daily view. Guy dropped 12 k before it sold. And it was already a good price
Now I know some people absolutely hate HOAs. IC_deLight seems to have a special kind of hatred for them. Yes HOAs are somewhat oppressive to individualism no doubt about it. And you have to pay for stuff that you do can do yourself. IMO its a choice.
Last edited by Electrician4you; 10-21-2013 at 10:39 PM..
Maybe folks have been 'numbed-down' by the plethora of meaningless software agreement forms --- they go on for pages and nobody really reads them before signing the "I Agree" button. These are typically written in 'bureaucratese' and even if one wanted to read and try to understand them, they are really only 'CYA' documents that invariably say, "If anything goes wrong, the company assumes no responsibility."
HOA documents/rules, however, actually govern the day-to-day operation of the HOA and spell out the responsibilities of owners to the HOA and their neighbors. Most HOA documents are also very straight-forward and written in simple English. No owner who takes time to read most HOA rules can really claim that they are too complicated to understand.
Instead, IMO, today's reality is that many people simply do not think any 'rules' actually apply to them!
And, unfortunately, most HOA's depend on 'neighborly good will'... and have little real enforcement power. (Most, can levy fines on recalcitrant owners, but, HOA's really don't want to 'go to war' with their owners, so they rely on letters and phone calls. This is even true when it comes to non-payment of HOA dues; the HOA can file property liens, but, such liens are difficult to enforce and are subordinate to primary liens ... such as the 1st Bank Mortgage).
This is very true. Yes, many docs are jumbled in car trunks or on the floor of the back seat or in a bottom office drawer. People didn't take them seriously. And that goes back to an idea it can't apply to me unless I want it to.
Never saw the point in joining a football team, carrying a baseball bat and wearing a cap, trying to hit a homerun with a football and then whining because the game didn't go my made up way.
I do know there are great issues when by laws are changed after one moves in and when power hungry board members rule.
You have a choice. It's just one you don't want to take.
Or can't take. Rather few people can take on a custom build.
The issue regarding choice existing requires an actual choice to be available.
In most of the sunbelt and west choice doesn't really enter the picture.
One more time...
what percentage of the new and newer homes in your area are NOT in an HOA?
I live in a Valley 18 miles North west of Reno, NV. We have 2 main housing tracts, and the rest is 1 to 5 acre parcels. The tract I live in has a great HOA run by good people. We are currently overfunded, so they've been suspending dues for 3 out of 12 months for the past few years. The other tracts HOA fell apart due to lack of participation. They now have big travel trailers in the front yards, parked in the streets, and yards that go unmaintained without water. The real issue is the areas of large lots. They'll be some retired guy with a very nice home right next to a lot filled with trash. Some have gotten so trashy the Fire department comes out, and forces these people to clean up. This area also has the highest crime rate.
IMHO, an HOA is just like any other organization. Whether it be towns people coming together in the 1800's to bring a doctor to their town, or today's HOA sending a note to a homeowner who hasn't kept up the yard it is not much different. Freedom's afforded us in this country are some of the greatest in the world, but complete lack of control to the point of anarchy is not something I ever wish too see.
There are plenty of "zero lot line" subdivisions where the homeowners own the yard. Sounds like you aren't dealing with HOA-burdened property but rather a condo.
No, it is not a condo association, it is an HOA. The HOA maintains the lawns and landscape, but not the building or it's roof. I know the difference between the 2 types of communities
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. If the property covenants are declared so, and they are, there is no confusion.
A guy that has a million dollar home is not gonna have some POS jalopy rusting in the weeds nor is he gonna paint his house pink with yellow trim and have some clown music blasting while drinking beer on the tailgate of his truck.
You have a choice. It's just one you don't want to take. In some cases HOA is what stops people from doing stupid stuff otherwise I can guarantee you one of your neighbors new or old will paint his house some garish color or have some broken down car on the driveway or just flat out not care about the appearances of their house. Do you to think that the people who are dirty slobs live only in non HOA areas? What do you think happens when nice neighbor Bob moves out and full of hate Bill moves in? Bill is more worried about partying with his buds at all hours of the night and he has the muscle car that. He is one day gonna fix it up but waiting to get the money together so its gonna sit
I looked at this house and it was beautiful. I mean you could see the true pride in ownership. Too bad the house across the way looked like Sandford and Son were living there. I did not buy the house simply because I didn't want that craphole to be my daily view. Guy dropped 12 k before it sold. And it was already a good price
Now I know some people absolutely hate HOAs. IC_deLight seems to have a special kind of hatred for them. Yes HOAs are somewhat oppressive to individualism no doubt about it. And you have to pay for stuff that you do can do yourself. IMO its a choice.
Your 2nd to last paragraph is the exact reason I didn't bother asking the realtor for a showing on a nice house we did a drive by on in Kentucky. Too bad those neighbors were able to drag down the value of a nice house just because they live like pigs.
No, it is not a condo association, it is an HOA. The HOA maintains the lawns and landscape, but not the building or it's roof. I know the difference between the 2 types of communities
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. If the property covenants are declared so, and they are, there is no confusion.
I'm well aware of the Florida statutes and those in several other states. Clearly you can't accurately describe the environment and you're still trying to get people to compliment you on how great the HOA for which you are a board member is without even identifying the project.
Pretty amazing you aren't even allowed to do anything in "your" yard. You've really lost all sense of the word "ownership". The rest of the owners undoubtedly enjoy being treated as tenants in their own properties. As long as you have control over everyone else's property via the HOA board your world is complete, isn't it.
So tell us are you self-managed or are you using an HOA management company and if so which one.
I live in a Valley 18 miles North west of Reno, NV. We have 2 main housing tracts, and the rest is 1 to 5 acre parcels. The tract I live in has a great HOA run by good people. We are currently overfunded, so they've been suspending dues for 3 out of 12 months for the past few years. The other tracts HOA fell apart due to lack of participation. They now have big travel trailers in the front yards, parked in the streets, and yards that go unmaintained without water. The real issue is the areas of large lots. They'll be some retired guy with a very nice home right next to a lot filled with trash. Some have gotten so trashy the Fire department comes out, and forces these people to clean up. This area also has the highest crime rate.
IMHO, an HOA is just like any other organization. Whether it be towns people coming together in the 1800's to bring a doctor to their town, or today's HOA sending a note to a homeowner who hasn't kept up the yard it is not much different. Freedom's afforded us in this country are some of the greatest in the world, but complete lack of control to the point of anarchy is not something I ever wish too see.
So sad you can't tell the difference. The difference is night and day. There is a difference between a legitimate government that recognizes constitutional limitations on its authority including protection for individual rights as opposed to a tyrannic private corporation worn like a veil to harass property owners. An example of the former is a municipality. An example of the latter is more like the KKK. The "clan" hides behind the white hood just as board members and vendors operate through the HOA corporation.
You live in a desert and you are concerned that other property owners let "their yard go unmaintained without water"? Perhaps there should be an examination of public policy that allows involuntary membership corporations to threaten people with fines and foreclosure for failure to implement "lawns" and irrigation of them in the desert.
HOAs are not "groups" - and they were not formed voluntarily by homeowners in the area. The ones that are the subject of the problems are involuntary membership corporations formed by someone else for their benefit not the benefit of the homeowners.
Few states have had the publicity of embezzlement, fraud, election-fixing, suspicious suicides, large numbers of indicted individuals and corrupt public officials, and federal investigations as Nevada. At last count, in one case alone there were over 38 defendants so far several of whom were public officials. At least four "suicides" occurred once the investigation began. As usual, the management company and HOA attorney were directly involved in the fraud. Perhaps that enduring investigation will be expanded into other states.
Last edited by IC_deLight; 10-22-2013 at 11:40 AM..
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