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There is no collusion. The reason why 1% commission offerings aren't common is because they aren't profitable and those companies go out of business because they can't do math. That is why Redfin has changed its model over time. What they thought consumers wanted turned out to not be true.
There is collusion in a real sense. Maybe not formal collusion but obstructionism. Any seller who is trying to sell their property themselves and runs up against agents controlling the buyer pool knows this. Anyone looking to come out with new business models that wants to access data from the MLS and present it in a certain way - and told they can't - knows this. Any buyer who wants to look at properties via the listing agent and gets nowhere knows this. Etc, etc. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck - it's a duck - even if you call it something else.
Redfin didn't change it's model because consumers didn't want what they offered - they changed because of roadblocks to data and challenges of operating in a highly structured system. Consumers wanted what they offered and to say differently is misleading.
Last edited by illtaketwoplease; 12-30-2015 at 03:44 PM..
There is collusion in a real sense. Maybe not formal collusion but obstructionism. Any seller who is trying to sell their property themselves and runs up against agents controlling the buyer pool knows this. Anyone looking to come out with new business models that wants to access data from the MLS and present it in a certain way - and told they can't - knows this. Any buyer who wants to look at properties via the listing agent and gets nowhere knows this. Etc, etc. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck - it's a duck - even if you call it something else.
Redfin didn't change it's model because consumers didn't want what they offered - they changed because of roadblocks to data and challenges of operating in a highly structured system. Consumers wanted what they offered and to say differently is misleading.
Cries of "Collusion" often seem to equal, "I cannot easily bend you to my will, so you are a cheater."
If consumers actually wanted what Redfin had to offer, and Redfin quit offering it due to profitability concerns, then it would appear that Redfin was undercapitalized or poorly managed their capital.
Everyone starting up a business in any endeavor has to have adequate resources to ride out the lean times to get to their goal.
Yes, this is basically the definition of an inelastic supply and demand, but not due to true barriers to entry but rather artificial barriers which is exactly what pricing fixing is.
What exactly do you think anti trust is, its having control of some asset or product that has become integral in the society so that controlling entity or group of entitys can jack up the price and fleece everyone else.
the reason you don't have to bend is because there is monopoly on the MLS.
mo·nop·o·ly
məˈnäpəlē/ noun
noun: monopoly; plural noun: monopolies; noun: Monopoly 1.
the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service.
"his likely motive was to protect his regional monopoly on furs"
The exclusive control of brokerages over the MLS is the very definition and the whole reason anti trust was invented. Now I realize that anti trust laws have been drastically watered down since their conception but that does not change the fact that you are in fact a cheater and are ripping people off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish
Cries of "Collusion" often seem to equal, "I cannot easily bend you to my will, so you are a cheater."
If consumers actually wanted what Redfin had to offer, and Redfin quit offering it due to profitability concerns, then it would appear that Redfin was undercapitalized or poorly managed their capital.
Everyone starting up a business in any endeavor has to have adequate resources to ride out the lean times to get to their goal.
Yes, this is basically the definition of an inelastic supply and demand, but not due to true barriers to entry but rather artificial barriers which is exactly what pricing fixing is.
What exactly do you think anti trust is, its having control of some asset or product that has become integral in the society so that controlling entity or group of entitys can jack up the price and fleece everyone else.
the reason you don't have to bend is because there is monopoly on the MLS.
mo·nop·o·ly
məˈnäpəlē/ noun
noun: monopoly; plural noun: monopolies; noun: Monopoly 1.
the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service.
"his likely motive was to protect his regional monopoly on furs"
The exclusive control of brokerages over the MLS is the very definition and the whole reason anti trust was invented. Now I realize that anti trust laws have been drastically watered down since their conception but that does not change the fact that you are in fact a cheater and are ripping people off.
Please support your positions above with fact.
Attitudes, while their existence may be confirmed, don't pass as fact.
1. Name a US market where arm's length real estate transactions are exclusively conducted only via MLS advertising.
2. Name an MLS... No, make it 3... Covering 1,000,000 or more population where commissions are inflexible.
3. Oh, 1 & 2 will do for now.
****
"What exactly do you think anti trust is, its having control of some asset or product that has become integral in the society so that controlling entity or group of entitys can jack up the price and fleece everyone else."
I believe you are confused about "anti trust" (sic).
There is collusion in a real sense. Maybe not formal collusion but obstructionism. Any seller who is trying to sell their property themselves and runs up against agents controlling the buyer pool knows this. Anyone looking to come out with new business models that wants to access data from the MLS and present it in a certain way - and told they can't - knows this. Any buyer who wants to look at properties via the listing agent and gets nowhere knows this. Etc, etc. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck - it's a duck - even if you call it something else.
No. FSBO's that market themselves well sell their homes because they make it easy for their home to be found. I can also tell you that when I go over my buyer agency agreement about 75% of buyers will initially say they don't want to deal with FSBO's because of a previous bad experience with them. They make it hard to see a house, are rude, don't clean the house, etc.
The MLS is not a free for all. It is a business with rules. They really aren't hard to rules to follow and they offer opportunity for EVERY real estate model you can think of except open listings. (Some MLS's may allow those, but mine doesn't).
Take a class, become an agent and change the system to your liking if you don't like what you see. I know in Oregon there are many online options to take licensing classes. I'm sure many states are the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by illtaketwoplease
Redfin didn't change it's model because consumers didn't want what they offered - they changed because of roadblocks to data and challenges of operating in a highly structured system. Consumers wanted what they offered and to say differently is misleading.
You are just misinformed. Redfin found customers didn't want what they offered so they changed. Kelman said it himself. They are smart over there and do lots of surveys of their clients. As such, they respond and change when their idea doesn't work.
You are aware that Redfin won't go into cheaper markets, right? They leave those to the traditional agents because their model isn't profitable there. So they just refer business to local agents and take a referral fee. The reason they won't go into cheaper markets is because the MATH of their model doesn't work.
I know you want it to be obstruction but really it is math. Income-Expenses=Profit. A very simple equation to making money.
Seriously? That is from 2012. I am an agent and in full support of almost everything you have brought up but at least pull in accurate/ up to date data.
The link includes several cases where the DOJ succeeding in proving exactly that. I'm sure there is more to come.
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