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I'm not going to generalize with this but today I was at a random get together and there were a few females chatting about guys and how they're independent and don't need a guy etc, etc.
It eventually kind of ended up having a debate and what was bothering me was that as much as the women were saying "I can take care of myself, make my own, got my own car, etc" they kept talking about how much money the guy has or makes and they won't or can't date a guy who doesn't make as much money as them.
So I asked them why do they feel the need to have a guy who makes more money than them if they got it? Why depend on a guy for everything? For a date, hangout etc. It sounded almost contradicting to me because almost all of their answers were "because he's a guy". That answer after all that independent lady talk.
I can totally understand a lady wanting to date a guy who's secure and who can take care of himself and has his priorities straight but at the same time I don't see a problem with a lady who probably posses more tangible things than a guy or even makes more money then him. Whats wrong with a lady having a car? Making more money and being just slightly ahead of the man? Heck, why not even pay for a bill? Why not a lady take a guy to HER place after a nice night out? As long as the guy isn't being a leech and like I said, got his stuff together, whats wrong with it?
I know its unconventional and I never let a lady pay for my dinner but I've had women come pick me up in a car, and take me out somewhere they wanted to go. I still was very much the man but I am attracted to a lady who's confident in herself and knows she doesn't need to depend on me.
I'm tired of ladies wanting me to have a car, my own place, this and that etc. I don't have everything but I make good money and take care of my priorities and get stuff done however some ladies want me to have a car, house but they'll go on the whole "independent lady" talk. This is NOT a knock against women but actually a more positive thought for women empowerment I suppose.
Let me hear your thoughts
P.S.:Excuse my grammar but its 3:07AM as of now and I am DEAD tired by felt compelled to type this before I fell asleep.
You have good points. I agree, it does sound contradictory. Many women want to be independent and equal in their own right, but they also want to look up to a man. It's like being taller or stronger than a man--some men and women could care less, but to others it just feels unnatural. I am not defending the women who never reciprocate for dates or just take, take, take, but I do understand the mindset of feeling more comfortable making less money than a man. Many men have this same attitude (wanting to make more than a woman), surely you know that. Even you said you never let a woman pay for your dinner. It's socially ingrained in us, and there's probably a fair amount of "biology" going on, too.
What I don't understand are:
1. Women who play by only half the rules, wanting traditional treatment but not giving it in return. The other half of allowing men to be in the superior position is the woman's acceptance of being in a subordinate position. That can be a bitter pill to take.
2. Men who complain about feminism and "modern women" and their increasing independence, while saying things like, "Only golddiggers expect me to pay for their dinners" and "She'll never get a penny from me." They want the benefits of traditional women without putting in the required effort to get one.
2. Men who complain about feminism and "modern women" and their increasing independence, while saying things like, "Only golddiggers expect me to pay for their dinners" and "She'll never get a penny from me." They want the benefits of traditional women without putting in the required effort to get one.
I don't know if this is the same thing. Being a gold-digger and marrying a man for his money isn't a "traditional expectation" in a relationship. The "she'll never get a penny from me" refers more to divorce situations where women feel entitled to half a man's income soley based on the fact she was "used to that lifestyle".
It's common knowledge men get the short end of the stick in divorce court. You're comparing apples to oranges here.
I don't know if this is the same thing. Being a gold-digger and marrying a man for his money isn't a "traditional expectation" in a relationship. The "she'll never get a penny from me" refers more to divorce situations where women feel entitled to half a man's income soley based on the fact she was "used to that lifestyle".
It's common knowledge men get the short end of the stick in divorce court. You're comparing apples to oranges here.
No, I have seen several posts on this board from guys who think otherwise. Some of them were directed at me because I do feel entitled to half of my husband's assets, should we ever divorce. We both came to this marriage with nothing and have amassed what we have due to the other person's support. Some guys feel that's all his money, but no. It's ours. (I have my money too, BTW, that is also ours.)
Like I said before, the disconnect of expectations goes both ways. It's fine to want a woman who makes plenty of money and doesn't need a man to support her, but don't simultaneously complain about "modern feminists" and how they're all uppity and don't "act like women."
It eventually kind of ended up having a debate and what was bothering me was that as much as the women were saying "I can take care of myself, make my own, got my own car, etc" they kept talking about how much money the guy has or makes and they won't or can't date a guy who doesn't make as much money as them
First, I have always made as much and most often more than both my ex husbands and now my bf, who is unemployed and has no house.
This is only my opinion, but on top of what Julia said about biology and it being socially ingrained, many women feel a relationship with a man who dosent or cant earn equally will end up with her supporting a lazy man. She will be the bread winner and the chef cook and bottle washer.
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So I asked them why do they feel the need to have a guy who makes more money than them if they got it? Why depend on a guy for everything? For a date, hangout etc. It sounded almost contradicting to me because almost all of their answers were "because he's a guy". That answer after all that independent lady talk
Again, this is socially ingrained gender roles. Even a filthy rich woman will naturally fall into her prescribed role to be the one wooed and escorted as men do their role of pursuer and protector. Don’t fret tho, these roles are changing. Then will men be complaining that she expects him to do her laundry, have the house clean, be the one to take off to care for the children and be home with them while she stops for drinks with the girls after work.
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Whats wrong with a lady having a car? Making more money and being just slightly ahead of the man? Heck, why not even pay for a bill? Why not a lady take a guy to HER place after a nice night out? As long as the guy isn't being a leech and like I said, got his stuff together, whats wrong with it?
Nothing. It happens everyday. I have a car, I drive the majority of the time and pay the tab half the time.
Quote:
I know its unconventional and I never let a lady pay for my dinner but I've had women come pick me up in a car, and take me out somewhere they wanted to go. I still was very much the man but I am attracted to a lady who's confident in herself and knows she doesn't need to depend on me.
Now aren’t you being contradictory?
Quote:
I'm tired of ladies wanting me to have a car, my own place, this and that etc. I don't have everything but I make good money and take care of my priorities and get stuff done however some ladies want me to have a car, house but they'll go on the whole "independent lady" talk. This is NOT a knock against women but actually a more positive thought for women empowerment I suppose.
I don’t know. I live rural so a car is necessity for both genders. I wouldn’t want to date a guy that could not drive. I cant imagine not having transportation. I don’t feel a man should own a home, but should have a place to live. Not everyone is cut out to be a homeowner.
Yeah, I know I am/was with that statement but its something I'm trying to open up to more. I don't have an issue wit it but its just something I am so used to. I let two women actually pay for my date before and it didn't feel bad because in the end, I treated them right and vice versa. It's just that I don't want women (or anyone for that matter) to think I'll be depending on them.
I had a two friends who were a couple and the lady made a lot more money than her boyfriend and even got him a car AND paid for his schooling and for their trips to the Caribbean! Granted, he worked his ass off, and treated her out and did things for her when he got his money up but she was more of the bread winner in the relationship and footed most of the bill. She appreciated the fact that he was at least pursuing a goal he had, which I thought was an awesome relationship in the sense that the lady was more financially stable but didn't care that her boyfriend made significantly less than her and lived with his mother. Granted, they're not teens and she isn't unattractive (very attractive in fact. I bring up the part of her looks because its often touted that only "ugly" chicks take care of there boyfriends from where I come from for whatever reason).
In my opinion she was the definition of an independent woman.
I'm not going to generalize with this but today I was at a random get together and there were a few females chatting about guys and how they're independent and don't need a guy etc, etc.
It eventually kind of ended up having a debate and what was bothering me was that as much as the women were saying "I can take care of myself, make my own, got my own car, etc" they kept talking about how much money the guy has or makes and they won't or can't date a guy who doesn't make as much money as them.
So I asked them why do they feel the need to have a guy who makes more money than them if they got it? Why depend on a guy for everything? For a date, hangout etc. It sounded almost contradicting to me because almost all of their answers were "because he's a guy". That answer after all that independent lady talk.
I can totally understand a lady wanting to date a guy who's secure and who can take care of himself and has his priorities straight but at the same time I don't see a problem with a lady who probably posses more tangible things than a guy or even makes more money then him. Whats wrong with a lady having a car? Making more money and being just slightly ahead of the man? Heck, why not even pay for a bill? Why not a lady take a guy to HER place after a nice night out? As long as the guy isn't being a leech and like I said, got his stuff together, whats wrong with it?
I know its unconventional and I never let a lady pay for my dinner but I've had women come pick me up in a car, and take me out somewhere they wanted to go. I still was very much the man but I am attracted to a lady who's confident in herself and knows she doesn't need to depend on me.
I'm tired of ladies wanting me to have a car, my own place, this and that etc. I don't have everything but I make good money and take care of my priorities and get stuff done however some ladies want me to have a car, house but they'll go on the whole "independent lady" talk. This is NOT a knock against women but actually a more positive thought for women empowerment I suppose.
Let me hear your thoughts
P.S.:Excuse my grammar but its 3:07AM as of now and I am DEAD tired by felt compelled to type this before I fell asleep.
Im very independant, pay my own bills,...I can and do also take my man out, why not? he does it for me. He makes me dinner, I make him dinner.
I do expect a man to have priorities and not a be a dead-beat. Why dont you let a lady pay for your dinner once in awhile too? You said you wanted an independant lady?? you contradict yourself..
I know I sort of contradicted myself and I can be a little stubborn about it but like I mentioned in 2 post above yours, I HAVE let women pay for my dinner before and even let an ex of mine pay my bus ticket to go visit her. I never used them and it was always respect, basically one hand washes the other relationship.
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