Why does much of the female gender act supportively toward one, but overwhelmingly reject the other? (looking, different)

[Phoenix2017]

Originally Posted by JustJulia

Knight, this thread is now over 40 pages long. You have received a lot of opinions and suggestions, which you have acknowledged and apparently processed. Has anything changed for you? I fear you are living your life in your head, or in this thread. These pages are just the same statements over and over again, with your same acknowledgements and thanks. Are you going to do anything, or does Gilmartin hold some key to your shackles? This is your future we are talking about, and you don’t seem like you are doing anything about it.

What else would you have me do, other than what I've already done? Over the past 1-2 years, I have:

(1) Gone on 30 (unsuccessful) dates over about the past year;
(2) Getting professional therapeutic help;
(3) Tried at least one, maybe 2, unsuccessful long-distance relationships, that didn't work out (and I still strongly disagree with those who said that they "weren't relationships"...again who are they exactly, to make that claim?)
(4) Tried (again unsuccessfully) reading quite a few on-line and printed romance self-help books;
(5) Tried *many* dating sites, both paid and unpaid, sending hundreds if not several thouand messages to potential online matches, with only a handful of responses back;
(6) Hired a dating coach for over a year to try to get personalized help; and
(7) Even paid several thousand dollars, for an off-line, brick-and-mortar LTR-style matchmaking service.
ETA: (8) tried meeting girls in church settings.

Little or none of the above actually worked (with the exceptions perhaps of the professional help I am still presently receiving)...but it's not like I did absolutely nothing...I have *tried* to improve myself, using a variety of different methods described above, over the past 1-2 years. My subsequent failures, weren't for lack of trying, on my part...


ETA: if you believe this particular thread has outlived its inherent usefulness Julia, I have no problem at all about having it closed out, if you think that would be preferable to having it continue unabated. I deeply appreciate your comments, as well as that of everyone who was kind enough to respond and provide feedback

[Phoenix2017]

I cannot dispute the validity of several of your points...thank you for your feedback...

Originally Posted by MattB4

This is the real question. All the other stuff about love-shy and gays are simply dross.

Do women actually dislike you? From you description of your various encounters with them, I do not see a antipathy. I do see a overwhelming need for validation from women in general. I can only surmise that this is because of your poor relationship with your Mother. You are seeking as a child seeks for unqualified love and acceptance. Many people expect they can find this with a partner as adults. Too much of this is what probably drives the women away from you. You will not give them space.

You can not change your childhood all you can do is understand your need and work around it. Just do not cling to women like a lost cat clings to anyone willing to give it affection. At first it might boost their egos but after awhile it is too much responsibility for most to take on.

[Phoenix2017]

Originally Posted by h886

Could it be that you are trying to get in with a too-popular crowd rather than looking for people who are more like you? You did mention that you tended to be attracted to very pretty, feminine girls. Those girls (though as with anything, your mileage will vary) tend to be more popular and sociable than those with traits society considers less appealing. Probably they are surrounded by more friends than they can even talk to. I wonder if your chances might be better if you looked for the shy girls, the awkward girls, the girls no one else is willing to talk to.

A quick correction: I said earlier that *most* love-shy males tend to be attracted to very pretty, feminine-looking girls, but I had also added that I have dated girls from within the whole spectrum of beauty, ranging from 1 to 10 in looks. In fact the majority of the girls I dated, where 4-6 on the looks scale alone. Dating girls who are more moderately attractive than "pretty", is not an issue at all for me.

I also have to wonder if (as we've discussed before), the women you're attempting to befriend are picking up on the vibe that secretly, you would be delighted if something more than friendship came about between the two of you. Most people find it very awkward to have to turn away someone who professes romantic designs when they feel no attraction. Because of this, I have to wonder if perhaps they're sensing your interest (women are known for their intuition) and reacting harshly to get you to leave them alone.

You have a valid point, and applicable in some cases. However, as I believe I said previously, it wasn't always a conscious decision on my part, to become attracted to them...sometimes it just happened after a while, even if I had originally wanted to be "just friends" with them.

Have you considered targeting other very shy people for potential friendships? Men and women? Often shy people can feel more comfortable around others of their species, so to speak .

I agree with you that shy people may make better makes for each other, in terms of friendship and otherwise. The challenge is that it can sometimes be more difficult to actually find these ppl to hang out with, in real life, b/c they may be less likely to "get out" where they can be available to meet. Although I haven't actually had a chance to do so yet so far, I have made it a personal goal to check out online meet-up sites (in a platonic matter), to find groups / activities that shyer ppl would tend to do together. Stuff like maybe book clubs, gaming clubs, etc.

[Phoenix2017]

Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I do have one very close male friend, whom I have known ever since middle school and still actively keep in touch with, and visit and catch up a with, a few times every year, as he is not geographically local anymore, to me.

But you did have some very interesting ideas...yes, I would love to try getting more involved with ppl/groups who share common areas of interest. As I mentioned, it has been a goal of mine to look into that for a while now...up until present, I had been so busy with looking for a relationship, I hadn't had much time to devote to that, combined with the extra hours I'd been having to spend at work regularly until relatively recently.

Originally Posted by h886

Well, I think this is part of the issue. I think many women would see a red flag with a guy who didn't have any men amongst his friends. Furthermore, I would raise the question of whether you truly know how to be a friend with someone, or whether you subconsciously form what you consider to be friendships with women, always hoping that they will turn into something more. I think there's a fair chance that you could learn a lot from a friendship with another man. Are there not other shy men in your area? Other single guys who are kind of lonely? Other guys who share your interests? Not all men are interested in alcohol and sports. Additionally, it's easy enough to excuse why you can't drink. Just shrug and say, "Sorry, man, got a liver disorder and the doc won't let me." Then move past it and have a glass of water, acting like it's no big deal.

As a final note about "love-shys tend to have little interest in sports" and other such comments, I think it's critical that if people want to draw others to them in social settings, they need to cultivate some interests that are mainstream. This doesn't mean you have to love football, but it might mean that you should pick two athletic activities and try them. Maybe you join a running group twice a week. Maybe you go to the gym and get into lifting (both of which would be healthier, btw.) They don't have to be your favorite thing, but you could give them a try. It would give you something to talk about. If your only hobbies are stamp collecting and sci-fi, you might consider branching out into other areas more people enjoy so that you will have something in common to discuss. You could consider getting a pet, volunteering, joining a musical group like a choir or concert band... there are lots of options.

[darrensmooth]

Originally Posted by Knight2009

And the bolded portion above makes my point, for me. That's one of the major points of love-shyness -- the *notable absence", of romantic relationship experience.

Does someone expect a person to know how to electrically wire a house, if they're not a professional electrician? Can a person without any knowledge of how automobile internal components work, service a car?

It seems fundamentally unfair to expect a person, especially a love-shy male without much or perhaps even any real relationships experience, to be a pro at relationships already, and on the same level as non-shy men. It's a "chicken or egg" problem -- it seems that a lot of girls expect a love-shy guy to be relationships-savvy already, while at the same time not giving him an opportunity to actually gain that experience.

No I understand what your saying, but you sort of told some of us that we were wrong because we didnt count the relationship experience you had. My point is that you technically do not have any real relationship experience. You have an idealistic view of relationships, but the reality is that they are a lot of hard work and they are not always that great to be in.

[h886]

Originally Posted by Knight2009

And the bolded portion above makes my point, for me. That's one of the major points of love-shyness -- the *notable absence", of romantic relationship experience.

Does someone expect a person to know how to electrically wire a house, if they're not a professional electrician? Can a person without any knowledge of how automobile internal components work, service a car?

It seems fundamentally unfair to expect a person, especially a love-shy male without much or perhaps even any real relationships experience, to be a pro at relationships already, and on the same level as non-shy men. It's a "chicken or egg" problem -- it seems that a lot of girls expect a love-shy guy to be relationships-savvy already, while at the same time not giving him an opportunity to actually gain that experience.

Yes, but I would never hire someone who wasn't an electrician to wire my house. It's not that they need to gain experience first (I don't necessarily mind being the first house they rewire so long as they're competent), but that they need to gain the proper education to do a decent job of it.

Or they can choose not to be an electrician. It's up to them.

So, the choice is up to you. If you want to try to attain a girlfriend, you need to acquire the skills necessary to attract one, rather than expecting accommodations be made because of areas where you are lacking. I suspect that it's not so much the frequency of dating (as you mentioned you've been on 30 dates in the past year), but rather learning something from each one and looking at them as a whole to try and determine general patterns. 30 dates and 30 failed attempts seems to suggest that something isn't working. You're consistent. I think you need to look at what you're doing (many suggestions have been offered on specifics already) and change some things up. See if you get better results.

[fleetiebelle]

(1) Gone on 30 (unsuccessful) dates over about the past year;

In your mind, what is an unsuccessful date?

[Phoenix2017]

An "unsuccessful date", IMO, is one that does not result in a subsequent second (or third) date. And where the girl you're dating usually tells you things like "LJBF" (but doesn't really mean it literally, either), "I don't feel any connection/chemistry", etc.

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

In your mind, what is an unsuccessful date?

[darrensmooth]

30 dates is a lot to not hit it off with at least one of them

Where are you meeting these girls? (i mean how do you meet them to set up the date)

[zentropa]

Originally Posted by MattB4

Hold on a minute... now that is advice I could use. Sounds like the best choice is Drunk single moms that wear pants. Now where do you order these from?

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