Childfree vs Parents (long-term, happy family, kiss, mature)

[20yrsinBranson]

Originally Posted by christina0001

I have no kids, and I am very type A, very routine and opinionated (and a little critical I am sure)...I have been told by countless mothers that they used to be that way, and that once I have kids, these qualities will be obliterated because having children makes you become more flexible.

That's a snort. I am blissfully childfree and self employed. I get up when I want to; eat when I want to; get dressed when (if!) I want to; go to bed when I want to.... Flexible is my middle name. I could do NONE of these things if I had a small human being to answer to.

Because we do not have children my dh and I are able to save TONS of money, despite working less than the average person. We take regular vacations and really enjoy our leisure time being together.

The best thing is the peace and quiet. I am an only child and my mother has NEVER pressured me to have kids. She tells me that spending time with older folks her own age is so incredibly boring - "They have no life" "All they talk about is their physical ailments, their churches and their bloody GRANDCHILDREN". LOL My mom rocks.

20yrsinbranson

[oddd45]

I'm 28, and I feel all kinds of pressure to have children, I'm married and we're trying to have a child, but it just hasn't worked yet. Whenever I go to parties I get asked why I never had any children yet, and people stare at me and point and whisper about me. I think our society expects people to get married and have children by the time we're 25 years old, and if we don't do those things we're atomatically considered outcasts. when I went to visit Italy last year, I didn't feel the same kind of pressure, people didn't ask why I didn't have any children, and when I told them I didn't they seemed perfectly fine with it, but in the USA, people(even the younger generation in their teens) seem shocked that my husband and I don't have children yet.

[wclac]

I'm childfree forever. Before I started resenting the parents, they would giving me their usual remarks. I really don't like children.

[NOTAM]

first of all, expat....interesting that you are in Livorno, that is where my nephew is, first duty station in the USAF! he's having a blast!

i've been married a few times, never had kids by choice. now i am divorced 43 years old, two dogs.

the biggest issue i have is people think there is something wrong with me-"how could you NOT want to have kids?" i simply explain, i am not a "kid" person, i dont and never have felt the maternal instincts. i cant help it, that is who i am. i have no regrets.

in terms of the workplace, yeah, others have tons of excuses to call in cuz their kids are sick, having to pick them up somewhere so they have to leave early or whatever. i am slightly resentful because my dogs ARE my kids and mean JUST as much to me as their kids, but it would sound absolutely SILLY if i called in cuz my dog is very sick. i think i should be treated equally.

socially, it hurts me, because i have less in common with those in my age group. some of my coworkers/friends/acquaintances go do things e.g. go to Six Flags or Schlitterbaum etc, together, with their kids and hubbys. i am not invited...it's not that they dont like me, we are good friends and have fun at work together, but outside of that....

[nitokenshi]

I asked this question in another thread and I will ask here again.

Can someone please tell me how not wanting something makes you selfish?

EDIT: Have you guys ever been to the mall during weekdays? Usually there are tons of moms there and while wandering around I overheard a conversation.

Mom #1: Oh I have not seen you in ages
Mom #2: Susan had the flu
Mom #1: Yea its flu season jimmy had it last week
Mom #2: She would spend all night fussing. It was just terrible

I swear to you this went on for like 15 minutes a convo about lil susan and lil jimmy they never once talked about each other.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Xpat

I know this is a touchy subject for some but a discussion could perhaps lead to a better understanding among all of us.

Are those people/couples without children (who often refer to themselves as childfree) treated fairly in America's increasingly child-centered society?

Why are the childfree accused of hating children (just because they don't have them)?

How many childfree couples become second class citizens in their extended family because of their decision?

Are the childfree picking up the slack at work for the parents who must often leave early for family committments?

Why is it that a parent who volunteers to help coach youth soccer, etc is seen positively while someone without children doing so is seen as a bit creepy?

Do those with children respect the life choices of the childfree? Do the childfree respect the life choices of those with children?

Let's see, I've heard the child free refer to children as "Crotch droppings" and "F&*# fruit" and mothers as "Moos". Gee, I wonder where I get the idea they hate kids and those of us who choose to have them. Sadly, there is a faction of the CBC that displays hatred towards children and parents. Just google childless by choice bulliten boards. You'll get an eyefull.

As to whether or not they get a fair shake in society, of course they do. I have no clue why they'd feel they don't.

Childfree couples are not second class citizens in my family. Why would anyone else care whether or not they want to have kids? It's your choice. My family has more of a beef with welfare moms who expect everyone but them to support their kids. I have several cousins who are childless. I don't know why nor do I care. It's their life to live either way. They owe me no more explanation for why they don't have kids than I owe them one because I have kids.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by nitokenshi

I asked this question in another thread and I will ask here again.

Can someone please tell me how not wanting something makes you selfish?

EDIT: Have you guys ever been to the mall during weekdays? Usually there are tons of moms there and while wandering around I overheard a conversation.

Mom #1: Oh I have not seen you in ages
Mom #2: Susan had the flu
Mom #1: Yea its flu season jimmy had it last week
Mom #2: She would spend all night fussing. It was just terrible

I swear to you this went on for like 15 minutes a convo about lil susan and lil jimmy they never once talked about each other.

Is there a requirement they talk about each other? I had a half hour conversation with my brother in law the other day and all we talked about is the fact we're both unemployed. People talk about what's on their minds. Right now, that's unemployment for my brother in law and I. Sometimes, it's my kids, sometimes it's a crack in a basement wall.

Believe it or not, it's not your choice what other people talk about nor is what they choose not to talk about reason to ridicule them.

[20yrsinBranson]

Originally Posted by nitokenshi

I asked this question in another thread and I will ask here again.

Can someone please tell me how not wanting something makes you selfish?

EDIT: Have you guys ever been to the mall during weekdays? Usually there are tons of moms there and while wandering around I overheard a conversation.

Mom #1: Oh I have not seen you in ages
Mom #2: Susan had the flu
Mom #1: Yea its flu season jimmy had it last week
Mom #2: She would spend all night fussing. It was just terrible

I swear to you this went on for like 15 minutes a convo about lil susan and lil jimmy they never once talked about each other.

I realize that this is one of those "dreaded" generalizations that will get you flamed on the net, it has been my observation only that when women and men become parents that many other aspects of their lives cease immediately.

If you watch parents at restaurants you will note that almost all of the interaction is between a parent and child. Rarely if ever, do adults have conversations with each other, and when they do it is generally about the children. The true tragedy of this is when grown adults get together to "visit" and end up talking about nothing else.

I cannot count the times that I have been introduced to another woman only to have the first words out of her mouth be "do you have children?" Apparently, they presume the answer to be yes, because when I tell them NO, they are rendered speachless for the duration of the conversation. They simply have NOTHING TO SAY to someone who does not wrap every living moment around parenthood. It's sad really that so many people have no real life apart from being someone's mother or father.

20yrsinBranson

[TrishP7]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

I have 4 children... three have lives of their own... and the youngest is 16.

I do have an opinion about childless people. Not necessarily couples... but childless people. This may raise some hackles... but it has been my observation(s). Here's the short list: positives then negatives...

Positives:
well mannered
neat
squared away
nice homes
nice cars
nice clothes
nice vacations
good jobs
educated
volunteers
socially aware


negatives:
very sensitive to change, likes routines
critical of most parents with kids
critical of most children
critical
opinionated
prefers animals to people
a bit eccentric
annal retentive
OCD
small things are ''momumental"
the sky is falling
demanding
self centered
procrastinators

Dave's jumps into a pot of boiling stupid!!

I have 3 siblings who are all married, and have no children. They drive me nuts. the older they get, the worse they've become. I love 'em ... but man alive... the smallest thing... like a child spilling something, and WHAM!!! the world is ending.

I know this is a small caption of reality... but my experieces have led to a limited amount of contact with them over the years. They won't come to me and I very rarely go see them, anymore. The world of child rearing and childless people are at other ends of the spectrum.

I have met wonderful, well balanced, tolerant people without children. I have friends without children... and they are fine people, but we are VERY different. If childless people do not become "engage" with kids, at some level, it is their loss.

just one man's opinion... no offense intended.

Love your post!

[mari4him]

Originally Posted by Xpat

I know this is a touchy subject for some but a discussion could perhaps lead to a better understanding among all of us.

Are those people/couples without children (who often refer to themselves as childfree) treated fairly in America's increasingly child-centered society?

I am sure that some may feel that in some ways they are. However, in my opinion, and based on my experience and friends I have that do not have children, I do not hear that complaint. While I said some may feel they are, the truth could be said about those with children as well. At times they can feel that they are not treated fairly. Take the workplace for example. A mother may stand a less chance at a promotion than a woman that is not a mother because of the sterotypical idea that she would be less committed to her job because of her mother status, whether accurate or not. So I think viewing oneself as being treated unfairly by society is a matter of perception depending upon the individual person. Another example of someone being treated or viewed upon unfairly are stay at home moms, how many times have we heard the stereotype of them been bon bon eating, lazy, women who lack motivation or drive simply because they choose staying home to raise their children rather than pursuing a career. See... it can go both ways.

Originally Posted by Xpat

Why are the childfree accused of hating children (just because they don't have them)?

I, personally, don't think that they are accused of such. However, some do come out and outright state that they do. They refer to children as brats, stumbling blocks, fun suckers, relationship zappers, and in some cases blamed for the problems in the world in general. When this occurs, yes they are called out on the mat for it. Afterall, it is a case of calling a spade a spade in those situations. However, I don't believe that the average person that has made a decision to not have children is necessarily viewed as a child hater. In fact, I've known some and they actually love kids, as long as they are not their own. LOL.

Originally Posted by Xpat

How many childfree couples become second class citizens in their extended family because of their decision?

I wouldn't know to be honest. I have family members in my own family that have made that decision to not have children. They are accepted, treated and loved the very same way as those who did/do have children.

Originally Posted by Xpat

Are the childfree picking up the slack at work for the parents who must often leave early for family committments?

Again, I wouldn't know. It is not something that I, in my experience, have seen occur nor been affected by. However, even in that very question is seen the stereotype that is directed to those with children. Somehow it seems as an isolated situation to families with kids that they leave early or say don't stay late at the office. I've know childfree couples who won't stay at work a minute later than they have to because they enjoy their time alone at home with their spouse. Family committments that can come up are not limited to those with children only. Men have left early to attend something with their wives, or wives with their husband. Either has left early to attend a nephew/niece's event. It is something that can occur whether the person has children or not. Granted in some cases it may be more often in those with children, but I just don't think that it is as common an occurence as some make it out to be.

Originally Posted by Xpat

Why is it that a parent who volunteers to help coach youth soccer, etc is seen positively while someone without children doing so is seen as a bit creepy?

I, personally, do not see it necessarily as creepy, but I have heard of situations where it has been so. However, this was more about something about the person themselves than merely the fact that they didn't have children themselves. Perhaps they were just a little too touchy feely or something like that.

Originally Posted by Xpat

Do those with children respect the life choices of the childfree? Do the childfree respect the life choices of those with children?

I can't speak for all, I can only speak for myself. I do respect the choice of the childfree to be such. In fact, I absolutely believe that not everyone is meant to have children for whatever reasons. I even sometimes question those that do have children but never ever have time for them because they are more concerned or interested in advancing their careers than they are in raising their children and as a result the children are out of control raising themselves.

Do I feel the childfree respect the life choices of those with children. Sometimes yes. However, there are many times when I wonder if they truly do. Especially when faced with comments like the ones that often come up about how intolerant they are to children or when they outright speak words of hatred towards children in general. I have heard of those without children complaining about the little child at the booth next to them at a Chili's in a way that would make you think "how dare the parents enter the establishment with a child if the child could not be absolutely silent, sitting on their hands, throughout the entire stay". Now don't get me wrong. I do believe fully in children learning appropriate behavior when out in public places and learning not to disrupt those around them. However, children are children and they may have a bad day. As long as the parents are trying to settle the child down, what right does a childfree person have to insinuate that the parents of the child should not be there.


On a side note... I skimmed over some of the posts before me and saw a few things come up, along with some issues that I, in previous discussions as this one, have seen arise...

With regards to childless vs. childfree. Personally, I used to use childless, until in a debate over the subject a valid point came up. Childless would presume the person wants to have a child, only they have not thus far. Childfree, however, is more representative of a decision to not have children. Therefore I tend to use the term childfree now. However, I do believe people get way to hung up on the terms. If a person who has choosen to not have children is referred to as childless, a simple asking to be referred to as childfree works so much better than getting all defensive about it. Afterall, it may bother that one person, while other's in similar situations could care less about it one way or the other.

With regards to those choosing to not have kids being selfish. Personally, I think this is true in part, yet not true in another part. They could be viewed as selfish because they don't want to give up the freedoms and luxuries they have by being without children in order to have to care for another human being. However, the flip side of that is that they are actually not being selfish at all. In knowing what they are willing to do and not do, what they are willing to sacrifice and not sacrifice, they are in fact performing the most unselfish act by not having a child when they know they can't, won't, or simply don't want to provide that child with what that child would need from them.

Having said that... a lot of times the very people making that decision are the one's who they themselves attach the claim that they are too selfish to have a child. If someone refers to their decision that way, and that is what they believe for themselves, why does someone else have to take such issue with it, arguing that they are not selfish. Perhaps way too much is being looked into the word. Perhaps it is being taken way to literally. Honestly, I just don't think that it is so necessary to get so hung up on a word. The point is that they have made a decision to remain without children for whatever their reasons are.