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I find it interesting that this type of thinking is always brought up.
I never understood the reasoning behind not having kids being selfish.
Now, sometimes it carries with it the assumption on the flip side -- that somehow just having kids is a selfless act. It seems more people focus on "is refraining from having kids not good?", but no one really questions "is just having "kids for the sake of having them good?
Now, why do people think just bringing kids into the world is a selfless act? If you bring a thinking, human people who has the potential for pleasures and joys, pain and sorrow, laughter and tears, you create an obligation to them. If you carelessly bring people into the world and create unfulfilled obligations to them, it's selfish.
Some people would say that the act of "Well, I brought you into existence" is selfless is good regardless of how they are treated, without qualification (such as whether the new human being has a good life or not) which is stupid reasoning. It is only giving another human being a good life that is selfless, not just bringing one into the world. If you bring another human being into the world, and treat them miserably, you are doing bad, not good, despite the fact that you were the one who brought them into the world.
Caring for human beings' well-being and giving them a good life is selfless, whether that is one you produced yourself or otherwise.
Creating new human beings as an act is not selfless or selfish in and of itself, but how you will treat them once they are born is and what quality of life they will get.
Last edited by Stumbler.; 02-27-2012 at 09:45 AM..
I work 50 plus hours a week and i'm not lazy when it comes to working etc.
but i value my personal time,
i want to be able to go back to grad school, move or travel when I want too with freedom.
I am still into childish things, like comic books, cartoons, star trek etc.
My cat is enough work for me.
Is this wrong? weird?
No. Its good to know what you wouldnt want..I know many who use their kids as financial pawns or for attention, this is FAR more selficsh and narcissistic than someone who chooses a career and/or marriage without kids...
Society pressures some people, its an individuals choice.
Also the logic behind "everyone should have kids, and if not, they are selfish for not doing so" is totally absurd, if you take it into the extreme.
Would you for instance, say to a couple with only one kid and who doesn't want another "You are selfish for not having one more? After all, you've still got so much time and energy -- one more human that could have lived should have come into the world, with just a bit more free time."
Why stop there? Why not tell a couple with five, no... how about, ten children, "Well, you could always bring another life, if you have the time. If not, you are denying a new human life from being born and you are selfish."
In fact, if you believe that refraining from having kids is selfish, then you would believe your duty is convince everyone in the world that could possibly have kids, to have as many as their time or effort would allow. Basically, have as many lives in the world as possible to the maximum. Is that fair to anyone who would ever live otherwise? Anyone for quality of life, not quantity? That's such an animal-like mindset to think that everyone should just have as many kids as possible.
In fact, you could even argue, the most selfless thing you could do regarding children, is for everyone who is not a great parent to refrain from having kids except for those that are the best, most loving parents, since that would guaranteed that any kid born will never feel unwanted.
Or how about some reasoning that argues, adoption is more selfless than having your own kids as long as there are kids that need adopting, since you are filling a need to be loved that already exists as opposed to creating a new life that needs to be loved and then loving it, while other unloved humans exist in the world?
Liability. Doctors are probably fearful if the woman who has no kids changes her mind and encounters difficulity getting pregnant after attempting to reverse the original surgery they can be found liable.
When I had mine done 28 yrs. ago I had to sign a liability wavier stating that I could not bring any legal action if I changed my mind later on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsavvy
For females the procedure is much more complicated and if they change their mind down the road there is no turning back.
I'm not sure if a man has to be a certain age or not.
I think its a $$$$ thing. They knock themselves out of future business if they sterilize young women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by findly185
Can anyone explain to me why a women has to be 25 y/o with 2 children for a lot of doctors to even contemplate tubal ligation. I am 25 with no children and I have had 2 OBGYN's refuse to do the surgery. I went with implanon (birth control inserted into my arm), but I would much rather have a more permanent method.
Can men have a vasectomy done at any age?
I think its all up to the Dr. A guy at work is 27 and just had the procedure done. He dosent have any kids.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
26,709 posts, read 41,894,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
When I had mine done 28 yrs. ago I had to sign a liability wavier stating that I could not bring any legal action if I changed my mind later on.
That doesn't mean the court could not mind a loophole if they wanted to override it and find the doctor liable. As a guy who did well in his business law classes, courts can find a way to override a lot of stuff.
I work 50 plus hours a week and i'm not lazy when it comes to working etc.
but i value my personal time,
i want to be able to go back to grad school, move or travel when I want too with freedom.
I am still into childish things, like comic books, cartoons, star trek etc.
My cat is enough work for me.
Is this wrong? weird?
I dont know where you even got such an idea. My son is 28 and never wants kids. He enjoys his personal life and does as he wishes. My other son is divorced with 2 kids. His ex makes everyones life absolutly miserable and he has no free time. When he isnt working he spends his time with his sons. He loves them and enjoys being with them, just saying.
PS. I kind of think comic books and cartoons are a little weird for a 34 yr. old.
I can't imagine giving one damn what anyone else thinks about whether you have kids or not. I never had them, never wanted them, and never cared that others do.
The selfless people are the clueless ones who dislike kids but have them anyway becvause "society expects it..." or any other ludicrous reason.
It's very smart to know this and be decisive about it. Selfish? No. If you got into that situation, and then didn't deliver, it would then become selfish.
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