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I think black women are at the bottom of the desirability totem pole for ANY male, be he white, Asian, black or Hispanic. They (correctly or incorrectly) are thought of as too argumentative and negative, probably because they feel they have a natural disadvantage in attracting anyone but their own race. The only cool black girls I ever considered dating dressed, acted, and 'behaved' like white girls (they were not LOUD and they had colorful iPods).
I feel that some black men want to date women of other races just because it would prove to them and others that they have equal rights and access to them. It's further breaking down another racial barrier. And as a woman, this offends me because it's objectifying women and not taking into account that they may not find black men or men of other races attractive enough to want to have sex with.
What responsibility do you attribute to the women who date outside their race with these men? These are relationships that two people make a choice to get involved in. No one is forced. Couldn't she be equally as guilty of objectifiying a man? Perhaps due to erotic media images, certain fantasies she's entertaining, to break down a barrier on White racism and open up sexual access to Black men, or some other alternative motive?
Last edited by Klassyhk; 11-07-2008 at 09:46 PM..
Reason: edit
i see you are quite frustrated and resist the idea that practically all Asians think like this. but that's the reality, it's no use denying it.
please do not take this personally, but this is not a question of "...don't have the power to decide that this is how everyone feels...".
natural selection and finding someone of the opposite sex attractive is not an equal opportunity or affirmative action deal. no one needs to be forced to find the black people attractive, as well the black male does not need that as his self esteem booster either. again you demonstrate your false conception that the black males need to be loved by someone outside of their race.
my advice to you is: don't think that the blacks need to be found attractive by females of other race, and don't become so fixated with the illusory idea that black males are to be liked/loved by females of other races. there's no need for the black men to rely on that as well as
it becomes arrogance and hubris and narcissism to think that black men must somehow be the most attractive to females of other races. this demeans both the black and other races.
you also demonstrate very well what i have been saying: Asian men don't need to feel that they are loved or hated or disliked by females of other races, it's just not that important to them. They care about their own race and their own females. blacks and whites should do the same - stop trying get females of other races or their attention or their adoration. that is not necessary for your own race and your own self esteem.
don't apply affirmative action on natural selection. please face the reality and truth, that'll be good for the black race's self esteem as well as women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by char65
Actually, this has more to do with prejudice on your part. It's one thing to state that you don't find black people or people whose heritage is Asian/Black attractive. It's an entirely different thing to state as a fact that not only are these people unattractive, but it's the "black gene" that makes them unattractive. It would be similar to me stating that ALL Asian men look homely, effeminate and weak and are lacking the necessary equipment to fulfill their manly duties. Even if I believed this, I don't have the power to decide that this is how everyone feels.
A general question to the moderator. Exactly how far does a thread have to go down the hole before it's locked?
I think black women are at the bottom of the desirability totem pole for ANY male, be he white, Asian, black or Hispanic. They (correctly or incorrectly) are thought of as too argumentative and negative, probably because they feel they have a natural disadvantage in attracting anyone but their own race. The only cool black girls I ever considered dating dressed, acted, and 'behaved' like white girls (they were not LOUD and they had colorful iPods).
You are well within your rights to your opinion, we all have one. "Ghetto" acting Black women are at the bottom of this list except when it comes to ghetto acting Black men -- where these women are at the top of the list. The other class of Black women -- desirability is high. Many will not cross that line however, not due to desirability issues at all, but because interracial dating or marriage is not just crossing color barriers but cultural barriers which is another world altogether. Cultural barriers run much deeper than skin color. Most people, particularly Black women, prefer to remain in their own culture as oppose to marrying outside it and being a lifelong "foreigner" and "outsider" among their spouse's family and culture.
On another note, it seems that most Black men that leave their culture in relationships usually end up coming back sooner or later. It's rare to see interracial marriages last until widowhood in old age among a Black man with a non-Black woman.
Black males need to be better fathers. Of the few black guys that I have worked with or gone to school with, I don't think any had a close relationship with their father. They were all raised by their single mother, except for one, who lived on a golf course with both his parents. A couple of black people I am acquainted with have never even met their fathers. You could always tell the void really hurt them.
Hopefully the new first family will change this trend and make it 'popular' for black men to be family men once again.
natural selection and finding someone of the opposite sex attractive is not an equal opportunity or affirmative action deal....don't apply affirmative action on natural selection.
I don't think it's prejudice for people to like who they like. I firmly believe beauty and ugly is in the eye of the beholder. There will never be a worldwide concensus on beauty and ugly and there doesn't need to be. The human population has grown considerable without one for thousands of years.
i see you are quite frustrated and resist the idea that practically all Asians think like this. but that's the reality, it's no use denying it.
I think you missed my point. I don't particularly care whether Asian men find black women or people attractive. Attraction is subjective and everyone is within their right to decide what works for them. My point was it's inane for you to speak for all Asians, or any one to speak for their culture as a whole. A few post ahead of your post, someone who identified themselve as Asian contradicted your point. At least one of my Asian friends has been in a relationship with a black man for several years now. Although this is a small sampling, it at least support that you aren't speaking for everyone.
I also think its riduculous for you to take something that is your preference (or even the preference of some in your culture) and use it as support, as proof of your premise that a group of people are unattractive. I would make this same argument if you made any other assumptions based on your cultural bias.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizen_of_us
my advice to you is: don't think that the blacks need to be found attractive by females of other race, and don't become so fixated with the illusory idea that black males are to be liked/loved by females of other races.
And quite honestly, you seem way more fixated on who find black men attracted and who they are in relationships with than I am. I personally am only concern by the associations of one black male (my husband.) It seems that you are taking your hang-ups with the competition possibly posed by black men dating Asian women and trying to preface it as some type of sociological fact. I mean if you are only concern with whether Asian women find you attractive, and the Asian women are chasing after black and white guys, where does that leave you?
If I can offer you a little advice: get over it and accept your prejudice for what it is.
That said, I'm going back into lurking mode. This conversation is tiring.
I don't think it's prejudice for people to like who they like. I firmly believe beauty and ugly is in the eye of the beholder. There will never be a worldwide concensus on beauty and ugly and there doesn't need to be. The human population has grown considerable without one for thousands of years.
True, but if you step outside the US and look at countries in Asia and Africa, you can't help but notice how racially pure they are. Then especially in Africa where tribal purity is so important to them and in areas where the natural resources are limited (fresh water, food) there is much strife between the tribes and attempts at ethnic cleansing. In the old countries (versus the US being a very young country), there are usually several different traditional groups sorted by religion, family lineage and historical locales, and mixing between the groups is extremely rare.
Well with the Chinese, ethnic purity issue is tied up with their national goal to be a whole country again. Look at how mainland China views and treats Taiwan and Tibet. They want all the historically Chinese lands back along with the Chinese people living there. And they don't want or respect differing religions or philosophies. The Taiwanese like being a separate Chinese state, but the mainland wants them back, just like they finally got Hong Kong back after the British lease ran out. The Tibetans they treat poorly and they'd love for their people and culture to disappear.
Anyway, the Chinese don't want or welcome other races emigrating to their lands. Eurasians and blasians can be tourists, but never ever welcome to stay and become a citizen. Any non-Chinese that are living and working there are just passing through on visas. Of the few Chinese nationals over there that fall in love with someone from another race, they just leave the country completely to live elsewhere. As I've posted before, if you google up "China bounder" you will see how upset the Chinese (men) were about a white man's blog's stories about sleeping with several different Chinese women and his observations about their country during his stay as a teacher at a university.
Otherwise, speaking of stereotypes and also addressing the original question of this thread, and trying to keep it PG-13... I suppose another obvious reason that Asian men don't approach black women to date is that they don't feel well endowed enough to date them and what man wants to not satisfy their lover? My boyfriend has noticed that in the Japanese car magazines he's persused through, the magazines have big ads for treatments that increase the size of the male organ. And I did read an angry comment on an anti-China bounder site where the poster (who seemed to be a Chinese man) said that Chinese men are great lovers because they are very skilled and last much longer. He didn't make any comment on his size.
i see that it's very difficult to have a reasonable conversation with you. I never said I speak for all Asians, as one black or white person cannot say he or she speaks for all of his race. That's not the point, no one is arguing that my friend. But as you said those you saw in relationships with a black person is a "small sampling".
In the social sciences we have to accept the use of "large samplings", large trends. If you think about it, it is only common sense. I live in the Asian American community and know that, in a majority of numbers the Asians, both male and female are not attracted to the blacks. This is an overwhelming fact, not fiction. You can try to deny this by citing a few examples (or maybe thousands as these types of couples are quite visible), but that does not change the fact that the mainstream of Asian Americans are not attracted to the blacks, in fact, they are turned off by their overly aggressive, overt sexual behavior, objectification of females, etc.
I don't know what your ethnicity or gender or particular situation is, but please do not be extra sensitive and react in a way that is all too often the case with blacks and the "white guilt" ridden liberals. That is to use the "prejudice" or "racist" card. Also, please don't go into personal psychoanalysis into surmising that I may be an Asian male that don't "get any" and that's why I must be jealous or something. That is so immature, besides the point, as well as shows your "insecurity" in yourself as well as shows your neurotic denial of the plain truth: that is the truth is that for the vast majority of Asians blacks are not attractive. This is not prejudice nor is it racist, and for you to react that way is quite immature, foolish, and shows your self-imposed, illusory, victim mentality. Please be more rational and be strong enough to take in reality, that's where all constructive dialogues and fixing of the problems start, not by railing against people for "prejudice" or "racism".
Quote:
Originally Posted by char65
I think you missed my point. I don't particularly care whether Asian men find black women or people attractive. Attraction is subjective and everyone is within their right to decide what works for them. My point was it's inane for you to speak for all Asians, or any one to speak for their culture as a whole. A few post ahead of your post, someone who identified themselve as Asian contradicted your point. At least one of my Asian friends has been in a relationship with a black man for several years now. Although this is a small sampling, it at least support that you aren't speaking for everyone.
I also think its riduculous for you to take something that is your preference (or even the preference of some in your culture) and use it as support, as proof of your premise that a group of people are unattractive. I would make this same argument if you made any other assumptions based on your cultural bias.
And quite honestly, you seem way more fixated on who find black men attracted and who they are in relationships with than I am. I personally am only concern by the associations of one black male (my husband.) It seems that you are taking your hang-ups with the competition possibly posed by black men dating Asian women and trying to preface it as some type of sociological fact. I mean if you are only concern with whether Asian women find you attractive, and the Asian women are chasing after black and white guys, where does that leave you?
If I can offer you a little advice: get over it and accept your prejudice for what it is.
That said, I'm going back into lurking mode. This conversation is tiring.
i was not using the fact/trend that most Asians don't find blacks attractive to "brand" the whole black race as "unattractive" to all. You really missed my point in your passionate, seemingly "wronged", reply. If are hurt by that I apologize.
I was simply saying that to a majority of "Asians" the blacks aren't attractive. So don't take that to mean that to blacks or to whites that the blacks aren't attractive. Again, I'm pointing out that in a majority of the cases, blacks will think blacks are attractive, whites will think whites are attractive, and Asians will think their own race is attractive. I've never made the statement that somehow the blacks are universally considered unattractive - this is because there really is no universal (yet) standard of beauty, but within each race there is. I'm only stating what is in general true in the Asian American community, that is not prejudice or racism.
It will be a sad world if now you start pushing standards of beauty found in other races to others - that'll be affirmative action and "busing" in each race's natural selection, which would be ridiculous. Soon we'll have mandates from the government telling us we need to imbue 1/4 black blood into the next generation, 1/4 more the next generation, etc. if you want funding, or admissions into schools...
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizen_of_us
i see that it's very difficult to have a reasonable conversation with you. I never said I speak for all Asians, as one black or white person cannot say he or she speaks for all of his race. That's not the point, no one is arguing that my friend. But as you said those you saw in relationships with a black person is a "small sampling".
In the social sciences we have to accept the use of "large samplings", large trends. If you think about it, it is only common sense. I live in the Asian American community and know that, in a majority of numbers the Asians, both male and female are not attracted to the blacks. This is an overwhelming fact, not fiction. You can try to deny this by citing a few examples (or maybe thousands as these types of couples are quite visible), but that does not change the fact that the mainstream of Asian Americans are not attracted to the blacks, in fact, they are turned off by their overly aggressive, overt sexual behavior, objectification of females, etc.
I don't know what your ethnicity or gender or particular situation is, but please do not be extra sensitive and react in a way that is all too often the case with blacks and the "white guilt" ridden liberals. That is to use the "prejudice" or "racist" card. Also, please don't go into personal psychoanalysis into surmising that I may be an Asian male that don't "get any" and that's why I must be jealous or something. That is so immature, besides the point, as well as shows your "insecurity" in yourself as well as shows your neurotic denial of the plain truth: that is the truth is that for the vast majority of Asians blacks are not attractive. This is not prejudice nor is it racist, and for you to react that way is quite immature, foolish, and shows your self-imposed, illusory, victim mentality. Please be more rational and be strong enough to take in reality, that's where all constructive dialogues and fixing of the problems start, not by railing against people for "prejudice" or "racism".
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But this can cut both ways
