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Prenups are not only used to protect existing assets, they protect future assets while married. it can protect both people.
Not sure if i can get married without one..its not romantic but neither is someone's ones smirk in court when they exercise to ability to take something from you.i mean look at the image below..how would you feel if you were next to this person in divorce court?
This is the reason i dont understand how people say 2-3 yrs is a long time to be in a relationship. I dont feel relationships really start until about the 4th-5th yr. for me personally, i dont think you can ever trust another human being not to turn their back on you one day. We're naturally selfish and willing to capitalize on all opportunity when there is resentment. people also act on impulse when bitter and/or angry.
My experience for the record:
Ive never been married nor engaged. But ive actually been around two women who have. my sister and an ex. its horrible. very ugly. no one is a winner in this. men or women. its a nightmare. the guys had this same smirk in their face. i wish i couldve smacked them. so horrible. and im a guy. divorce is just nasty
Moderator cut: do not post pictures that are not yours
That's ridiculous. A balanced person knows that not matter how good things look right now, divorce is always a real possibility.
Of course it is, but that's not what I'm saying.
If they thought I'd take their 401K that they earned before we were married, or felt like I'd threaten whatever investments they had prior to our marriage, then they really don't know me as a person (and vice versa). I wouldn't marry anyone that had to second guess my character...and I wouldn't want to marry if I had to second guess theirs.
Prenups are not only used to protect existing assets, they protect future assets while married. it can protect both people.
Not sure if i can get married without one..its not romantic but neither is someone taking everything you worked for when they see your face in court.
This is the reason i dont understand how people say 2-3 yrs is a long time to be in a relationship. I dont feel relationships really start until about the 4th-5th yr. for me personally, i dont think you can ever trust another human being to turn their back on you one day. We're naturally selfish and willing to capitalize on all opportunity when there is resentment. people also act on impulse when bitter and/or angry.
See and I feel that any assets earned while married should be split 50/50. They can have what was theirs before the marriage, but after that we become a team. If they can't see our union in that way then they really aren't the person for me.
As to your second point, if I didn't know them well enough and considered that they could turn on me one day, they wouldn't be a person I'd want to marry.
I didn't sign one when I got married. We were both just starting out, no real assets for either of us.
If found myself single again and wanting to settle down I would not sign one if asked. There is no point in getting married in my opinion, because we wouldn't truly know eachother if we felt we needed the "protection" of a prenup.
We can make very reasonable and studied judgements about our significant others based on their actions (far more than their words). However, we still don't truly know all that goes on in their heads.
My wife was previously married. She was in love, and felt she truly knew her husband's heart. Not long after the marriage (months maybe) she started to see his real intent, as he no longer had to hide it. After they were married, my wife found out he lied about his mother being dead (she wasn't), about his past marriage/relationship (he admitted to a prior marriage, turns out he was hiding children with two different women, only one was he married to). He was hiding a mistress, in their house! Once married, he found it convenient to no longer work, letting her work 60 hours a week to struggle to meet all their bills. (he bought and paid for lavish gifts and vacations before they were married). She filed for divorce 2.5 years after they were married, after living for a year and a half in a living hell with someone completely different than the man she dated and became engaged to. She thought she knew his heart, but it really was only intending to use her for a green card (he was from the UK) and to suck her dry of as much money as possible.
Point is... we can think we know someone extremely well. Still, if you have significant assets, do you want to take that chance just in case? (Assets can attract lying users)
Remember that episode of Seinfeld where Costanza tries to derail his engagement to Susan by asking for a prenup and she laughs in his face and says sure I'll sign it because you have no money
The real Costanza plays a lot of 'No Limit Holdem Poker', in Vegas...
See and I feel that any assets earned while married should be split 50/50. They can have what was theirs before the marriage, but after that we become a team. If they can't see our union in that way then they really aren't the person for me.
As to your second point, if I didn't know them well enough and considered that they could turn on me one day, they wouldn't be a person I'd want to marry.
Thats my whole point though you see..
As much as you think you know a person after 2-3 yrs, YOU DONT. I knew a girl who spend 3 yrs of her life living with a man she thought she knew. next thing you know, dude has 5 passports. he bounced and she still doesnt know his name.
You simply dont know anybody within the first 5 yrs. you know things of them. but you dont know them.
I dont think any human can really be figured out completly to be able to answer that trust question.
which is depressing to think about because as a guy, i wish i wouldve gotten married by now. but its too risky. divorce can put you in a bad economic situation.
Thats my whole point though you see..
As much as you think you know a person after 2-3 yrs, YOU DONT. I knew a girl who spend 3 yrs of her life living with a man she thought she knew. next thing you know, dude has 5 passports. he bounced and she still doesnt know his name.
You simply dont know anybody within the first 5 yrs. you know things of them. but you dont know them.
I dont think any human can really be figured out completly to be able to answer that trust question.
which is depressing to think about because as a guy, i wish i wouldve gotten married by now. but its too risky. divorce can put you in a bad economic situation.
Ultimately, the decision to marry someone is made with some degree of faith, or trust, that they are being honest with you.
You can make an educated decision in this regard, by not getting dragged along by emotion. Evaluate their motives. Their actions (not their words). See how they are with their family, their friends. See how their family and friends treat them, trust them, etc.
Your right, even with this it can all be a ruse. Or things can change suddenly too. Still, there is some ways in which to minimize the risk.
Which is sort of like financial risk in other avenues. Financially, you "invest" in the partnership in a marriage. If you invested in a fund that went south, you would be upset. However, you would have made the investment feeling it was worth the known risk. Same with marriage, there is always some risk when dealing with an individual, but after doing all your due dilligence, sometimes you may take the risk to try and receive a greater reward.
We can make very reasonable and studied judgements about our significant others based on their actions (far more than their words). However, we still don't truly know all that goes on in their heads.
My wife was previously married. She was in love, and felt she truly knew her husband's heart. Not long after the marriage (months maybe) she started to see his real intent, as he no longer had to hide it. After they were married, my wife found out he lied about his mother being dead (she wasn't), about his past marriage/relationship (he admitted to a prior marriage, turns out he was hiding children with two different women, only one was he married to). He was hiding a mistress, in their house! Once married, he found it convenient to no longer work, letting her work 60 hours a week to struggle to meet all their bills. (he bought and paid for lavish gifts and vacations before they were married). She filed for divorce 2.5 years after they were married, after living for a year and a half in a living hell with someone completely different than the man she dated and became engaged to. She thought she knew his heart, but it really was only intending to use her for a green card (he was from the UK) and to suck her dry of as much money as possible.
Point is... we can think we know someone extremely well. Still, if you have significant assets, do you want to take that chance just in case? (Assets can attract lying users)
But here's the point...I wouldn't want to take the chance with my heart either. Marriage is optional. Nobody has to get married. I just wouldn't get married if I didn't feel I could trust this person 100%. If they are asking me to sign a prenup, it's because they can't trust me. Maybe it's them projecting that? Who knows. I just wouldn't get married.
Honestly, it didn't sound like your wife really knew this person. She never met any of his family? How could she not know his mother wasn't dead? How could she not know anything about his past marriages? They never got together with his family or friends??
And assets can only attract lying users if you advertise your assets before you really know who you are getting involved with.
I have been around long enough to see innocent people (including some member of my own, non-spousal family) get victimized brutally, mercilessly, injustly, and even illegally, by plain sick and twisted serious financial predators -- and the predators ended up getting away with it As a result of these unfortunate observations, if I ever get married at some point in the future, I will politely insist upon the following financial terms, prior to the actual marriage...and if the intended marrying party does not agree, then so be it; I will not go along with them though:
1. 100% separate accounts, for both married partners (* with survivorship options for my account assets to go to the married partner, in the event of my premature demise)
2. No joint accounts, in any shape or form
3. No co-mingling of funds or assets
4. Prenuptual agreement, to protect both parties
If the married partner needs assistance financially for whatever reason, I would be more than happy to assist her of course, and will gladly, ungrudgingly, and unstintingly give her whatever money she needs, but she will also not have joint access to my account. Period...I have seen the horrors of what that can lead to, first-hand...
Last edited by Phoenix2017; 08-21-2012 at 02:10 PM..
Reason: Adds / Edits
But here's the point...I wouldn't want to take the chance with my heart either. Marriage is optional. Nobody has to get married. I just wouldn't get married if I didn't feel I could trust this person 100%. If they are asking me to sign a prenup, it's because they can't trust me. Maybe it's them projecting that? Who knows. I just wouldn't get married.
I understand, and that is very reasonable.
I was sort of on the other side of the coin. My wife offered to sign a pre-nup for me since I came into our marriage with modest assets, where she was mainly carrying minor debts. I felt she was encouraging the pre-nup to show she wasn't interested in money.
I declined. In the short run, my assets were protected under NY law and court precedent anyway, but beyond that, I felt I trusted her and wanted to share with her. I decided in what I felt was an unlikely event it didn't work out, that it was a risk I was willing to take.
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Honestly, it didn't sound like your wife really knew this person. She never met any of his family? How could she not know his mother wasn't dead? How could she not know anything about his past marriages? They never got together with his family or friends??
She was nieve, and admits as much. It was a very short engagement (engaged after 2 months of dating, married after 8). He was a foreigner, from England, so his family was abroad, most of his friends were abroad.
After the fact, it became clear he suffered from Narcisisstic Personality Disorder, and is a master con-man. He always had a viable reason, explanation, and excuse for any of her questions, to comfort her. He also quickly learned how to push her buttons, to manipulate her. Ugly situation really... and not one everyone would end up in. (Just an extreme, but real example of how you can mislead yourself about someone I guess)
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And assets can only attract lying users if you advertise your assets before you really know who you are getting involved with.
Absolutely!
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As a result of these unfortunate observations, if I ever get married at some point in the future, I will politely insist upon the following financial terms, prior to the actual marriage...and if the intended marrying party does not agree, then so be it; I will not go along with them though:
