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I see often the notion that one spouse tries to controlling the other by "isolating them" from their friends/family. It's almost universally decried as abusive.
I often wonder if that behavior is painted with too broad of a brush. What about these real-life situations...
When your spouse's friend is a chronic liar or cheater or the like, and your spouse gets dragged into the drama?
When your spouse habitually overindulges in, say, drinking when with this friend (i.e., the sloppy 'mommy night out' scenario)?
When your spouse routinely returns from time with this friend in a horrible, nasty mood?
When the friend refuses to acknowledge you...and wants time with your spouse exclusively as if you're not even married?
These aren't uncommon situations I hear about and have experienced from time to time.
I know the first step would be to talk about these situations rationally and not jump right into trying to limit the time the spend together, you know...focus on the behavior and not the person, etc. but what about after that? Wouldn't it conceivably be appropriate to put on the table the notion of limiting contact? At the least, questioning what the value of the friendship is versus what it does to your relationship with your spouse?
You married a grown-up and you can't blame their faults on someone else. The entire so and so is a bad influence on you is B.S when you're a kid/teen and it's B.S when you're an adult. People make their choices. If they're acting like an irresponsible idiot then that is what they want to do. You need to communicate that their actions are unacceptable and if it continues there has to be consequences. You can't make someone act right but you also don't have to put up with them either.
You married a grown-up and you can't blame their faults on someone else. The entire so and so is a bad influence on you is B.S when you're a kid/teen and it's B.S when you're an adult. People make their choices. If they're acting like an irresponsible idiot then that is what they want to do. You need to communicate that their actions are unacceptable and if it continues there has to be consequences. You can't make someone act right but you also don't have to put up with them either.
So would just discussing these things be considered an abusive attempt at isolating your spouse?
Of course I don't think so, and I believe I could discuss these things rationally, but it seems to get called out as such a lot.
I get your point about "so and so is a bad influence."
I don't get why an otherwise fantastic spouse would sort of lower their own behavior to fit in with a friend like I mentioned. Hypothetically, of course!
No it's not abuse to discuss the issue with your spouse. If your spouse really is going out excessively and coming home sloppy drunk and neglecting the family then it's a legitmate problem. Is this just a once per week or bi-monthly girl's night out? Does this happen several times per week? Do you feel like your spouse should go out at all? How drunk is she when she comes home?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete
So would just discussing these things be considered an abusive attempt at isolating your spouse?Of course I don't think so, and I believe I could discuss these things rationally, but it seems to get called out as such a lot.
Oh I re-read. So this is a hypothetical situation? Sorry I thought this was happening to you IRL. Anyway, there is nothing wrong with communicating to your spouse that their actions are causing a problem in the marriage. You can't be the person to approach the friend and tell them to stay away from your spouse because you're married to a grown-up. I do think it does say a lot about the spouse and it's a bad sign if they are willing to let a friend create problems in their marriage. Defensiveness and accusations of abuse (that are not legitimate) are a sign that there are very big problems in the relationship that need to be addressed.
It's hard to paint with a broad brush, since every situation is unique.
On their own, each situation above is not necessarily going to be motivated by isolaton/abuse motives.
Generally, if someone wants to be controlling, they will try to isolate their spouse from all their close friends and relatives. Their goal is to make their spouse have only one outlet for support and help, themselves. That way, they can be in control.
IRL, things are more dynamic than a hypothetical example. Ultimately, someone should be supportive and encouraging of their spouse. Not only towards their spouse's ability to maintain, build, and grow healthy relationships with their friends and family, but also towards encouraging them to not build unhealthy relationships.
It is a unique concept to some, but a spouse is actually a human being with a life and a brain and choices of their own.
Any attempts to control another person's behaviour or life is futile, and often results in abuse, which is far more dangerous and fatal to a relationship than the original behaviour.
A relationship is voluntary, and if you don't like the behaviour of your SO, you can leave.
What you CAN'T do, is change anyone. Attempts to mold another person into your own ideal of whats "right" will end in disaster.
Isolating can take different forms. It takes two parties though for it to happen. Those on the outside can only speculate though.
I've known a couple situations where one half of the couple wasn't allowed to do things without the other one present. So if Mary is my friend, but I can't ever see Mary unless Jim the jerk is present, well eventually I'll pull away. That sort of describes one situation I knew about. Another situation involved a grandfather never being able to interact with his kids and grandkids unless his new girlfriend was present.
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