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Our grandparents were very successful at making relationships work for 30,40,50 and even 60 years of marriage.
My grandmother was a nurse and my grandfather was a welder for the Navy ship yard. They had a very good life. Lived very well and saved a lot of money too. Put 5 kids through college and helped each child secure their first home. My grandparents had a great grasp on what life was about. I'm sure your grandparents were similar to mine, in that regard.
My parents have been married for over 40 years. I remember my mom telling me that she and my dad met in college back in the late 60's. She approached him, and, well as they say, the rest is history.
Seems like, even with the top 10 dating websites, Meetups, forums, social media, people are finding it very difficult to connect with each other.
I know many guys that have just about given up on dating or attempting to find a gal to date, let alone get married to.
Some things to consider. Also, post you own views as well--- Have people gone overboard with their expectations and requirements? Have people priced themselves out of the market? Did feminism kill relationships? Is it about competing with each other more so than helping each other?
Let's talk
NOTE:I AM NOT SEEKING ADVICE. I AM POSING A QUESTION FOR DISCUSSION.
Overall a great post.
My grandparents however had the worst relationship in human history! ( LOL Joking)
He cheated on her / she turned herself into a psycho / my brothers and I suffered from her emotional abuse when we were kids / I wish I had different grandmother.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 11-11-2013 at 08:06 PM..
My maternal grandmother was married and divorced shortly afterwards.
My paternal grandfather was in the military and while overseas in Italy he found himself a mistress that he fell in love with and kept a picture of her in his wallet. My grandparents didn't divorce over this. I didn't find out about it until I was much older but it explains why my grandmother was so crotchety.
Back then, at least in my extended family, there seemed to be a stronger social support system. I don't know if we ever had a divorce in any of our families. In Eastern Queens / Brooklyn of NYC, I had uncles, aunts, cousins, several family members concentrated in a small neighborhood. Everybody knew everybody. Men went to work. Women stayed home. Women ran the household, and men ran everything outside the house, the garden, cars, travel, etc.
At least one of my grandmothers never drove. My grandfather drove her around, and would wait outside the store until she shopped.
Men did more outdoors stuff, like fishing, hunting, or gardening their vegetable gardens.
I don't think they ever philosophized about marriage like we do now. They were hard-working and busy people. They talked about their kids, they talked about everybody else's business, so no, they had no time to talk about their relationship.
Main premise of the opening post is simply wrong. Divorce was very, very present even 70 years ago and you had 1/4 of marriages ending in divorce. Difference happened mainly that new version of "no fault" changed the legal standings when children are involved. Problem of separation generally didn't exist for vast majority of folks that were childless since they needed to legally separate to start new families. Living with someone else while still legally married was generally a legal ground for divorce due to adultery (regardless of long-year separation prior to that) and that fact would be used in court by the other party to prove your fault. Proving someone's fault generally involved better property arrangements and having residential custody of the children. Most common case of proving someone's fault was marital infidelity, second common case was alcohol or drug (ab)use, mental illness and other reasons coming afterwards. You may find it strange, since marital infidelity and smoking pot aren't going to make any difference on property split or arrangement of the children in almost no developed country today.
Back in that time of 1950s, divorces with children usually involved couples who were dysfunctional to begin with and they couldn't resolve their problems - this generally applies to forced marriages due to pregnancy that were much more present back then than they are today.
In today's world, it's uncommon to be married before your first child is born anyways (hence overwhelming majority of young mothers are never-married in the moment of childbirth). However, divorce rates for married couples with children have soared sky-high when compared to the 1950s, even with the fact that many dysfunctional families are screened out by never marrying. This is generally the consequence of new version of no-fault, because husband is the guilty side by default and he needs to prove other side is at fault if he even wants to challenge custody. It's also why most fathers won't go to the court anymore unless they have a strong legal footing to obtain residential custody. Courts have seen a drop of custody battles even though there are much more couples with children that separate these days. Couples don't need to resolve their problems when you have one side with the tool to treat the other like disposable property and when the legal system makes sure that the other side is also treated like a walking wallet. Also take note that more people (including cohabiting couples) are marrying the daddy state, making the U.S. country one big marriage itself.
Essentially speaking, nobody divorces the state - state coerces taxpayers to pay for other people's private affairs and lifestyles, and taxpayers don't have a no-fault to opt out of paying other people's lifestyles, such as cohabitation.
Another big difference is that contested divorces are faster. It's mainly because it makes no sense to contest divorce when it makes no legal obstacle, even though legislators made sure to re-introduce numerous obstacles for divorce in the later decades. Many states and countries in the west have re-introduced or prolonged the "waiting period" for separation, as well as the waiting period in case of woman's pregnancy. It's really questionable how much sense does it make to do that in today's world when couples are often cohabiting anyways.
Take note that the times prior to today's "no fault" indeed had a no-fault versions of their own. But to obtain one was very tricky - most states that had one would generally require both parties to agree about no-fault divorce. And when they wouldn't agree... you'd have to be separated for years before being able to apply for it on terms of abandonment/estrangement. However, if the other spouse really wanted, he/she could sabotage the separation by keeping contact with children from time to time, enough to claim that he/she is involved in your lives and deny you any legal footing to divorce without consent. The last state in the U.S. to officially abolish this practice was New York and it happened only a few years ago and all mainstream media have informed about it.
Last edited by nald; 11-12-2013 at 04:43 AM..
Reason: added bold for emphasis.
Why were our grandparents so successful in their relationships?
Well let's see... one of my grandmothers was married three times. My other grandmother only married twice, I guess figuring two divorces was enough. I have no idea what kinds of relationships my paternal grandfathers had after they left my grandmothers because their children rarely (in one case) and never (in the other case) saw them again. I've actually never met my maternal grandfather. Even my dad only met him once, right when he started dating my mom.
So I guess I'm not buying the assumed premise of the question.
Not only did my grandmother have financial means, she was black. That say's a whole lot, especially for that time period.
Yes, it says a whole lot-- about her, because she is an exception to the rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco Barbosa
Hahahaha.......some of you, well, god bless you.
What can I say, I'm finished. Hahahahaha
So you intentionally start a discussion with a controversial point of view that you know many people will disagree with, and you bail after a page and a half because a few people responded exactly as expected? Interesting posting strategy.
I agree and I need to ask anyone who will answer a few questions: What's so noble about suffering and living a miserable life? Who are you living for anyway and what are you trying to prove?
My grandmother was born in the 20s..she had minimal access to education and the job opportunities were limited to nurse...teacher...housewife. Yes, she stayed married to gramps until he died and had 12 children. Was she happy? From what she tells me she was just doing what she was conditioned to do and never dreamed of another way to live. I think it's telling that my grandfather died in the 70s (he was born in 1911) and grandma lived until 2003 and never had another man because according to her she liked her freedom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nearnorth
Sure, if you define "success" as having no other choice.
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